The "What Color Is My Chicken?" thread! Calling all color experts! - Page 8

Sorry for inadvertently causing confusion... I did not mean to suggest that true black be called Gold Birchen, but I was trying to point out that some call it that, but calling it Gold Birchen is incorrect and causes confusion.

About Recessive black.. I should have mentioned that some believe that Bronze is E/E; Co/Co.

i.e. that would explain why when say, a Black Giant is crossed with a New Hampshire, the offspring almost always look bronze (however - I agree that I don't know of any testing that has been done to find out whether Self Black carries a Melanizer, or if Bronze carries a Restrictor. Some sources can't seem to even agree on whether E is dominant or Incompletely dominant.

Oh and to answer the Last two Questions (hopefully satisfactorially)...

The Cockerel is Golden Wheaten (or possible Salmon. I thing C=Golden Wheaten is more likely considering his sister) - Geno. e^wh/e^wh; S/s+

The Hen looks to be Silver Wheaten, and I can easily imagine her having a Diluter from the Dominant White clan.... Geno. e^wh/e^wh; S/-; Id/i+?

Expert chicken color analysers? I have an EE ckl here. He is nine months old and the black in him is actually blue but it is hard to see unless you are right up next to him.   I will post his biological sister in a new post as I just tried to do that here and lost the whole post.

His mama is a blue wheaton Ameraucana (pure).

His daddy is a (gold duckwing?) phoenix. All I know is that the person got him from McMurray and they breed their gold duckwing and silvers together. It says that right in their catalog. And she told me he was a gold duckwing,,,so,,,?

I would love to hear what you think his phenotype and genptype is. I am just starting to become more interested in this breeding and genes. (I suppose I should buy that book)  :)

Well here he is.

Thanks in advance

PS   He has a pea comb, but it is large. He is not used to being penned so he is a bit on alert here.

This is his biological sister. She doesn't appear to have any blue in her. She also has a pea comb and a small amount of muffs.

Thanks, so I should call it true black? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiki244 

Expert chicken color analysers? I have an EE ckl here. He is nine months old and the black in him is actually blue but it is hard to see unless you are right up next to him.   I will post his biological sister in a new post as I just tried to do that here and lost the whole post.

 

His mama is a blue wheaton Ameraucana (pure).

 

His daddy is a (gold duckwing?) phoenix. All I know is that the person got him from McMurray and they breed their gold duckwing and silvers together. It says that right in their catalog. And she told me he was a gold duckwing,,,so,,,?

 

I would love to hear what you think his phenotype and genptype is. I am just starting to become more interested in this breeding and genes. (I suppose I should buy that book)  :)

 

Well here he is.

Thanks in advance

 

PS   He has a pea comb, but it is large. He is not used to being penned so he is a bit on alert here.

 

Those hackle/saddle feathers are REALLY light.  I think that's ig (cream) at work.  Does he have any stippling in those hackle feathers?  It's hard to tell from the photo.  And with that sheen in his tail I don't think he can be blue.  Blue doesn't get a beetle sheen like that.

Yes it can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducks and Banny hens 

Sorry for inadvertently causing confusion... I did not mean to suggest that true black be called Gold Birchen, but I was trying to point out that some call it that, but calling it Gold Birchen is incorrect and causes confusion.

 

About Recessive black.. I should have mentioned that some believe that Bronze is E/E; Co/Co.

i.e. that would explain why when say, a Black Giant is crossed with a New Hampshire, the offspring almost always look bronze (however - I agree that I don't know of any testing that has been done to find out whether Self Black carries a Melanizer, or if Bronze carries a Restrictor. Some sources can't seem to even agree on whether E is dominant or Incompletely dominant.

 

Try reading the following:

Smyth, J.R. Jr. (1976) Genetic Control of Melanin Pigmentation in the Fowl. Proc. 25th Poultry Breeder's Roundtable (Kansas City), 69-86

Moore, J.W., Smyth JR Jr., 1971. Melanotic: Key to a Phenotypic Enigma in the Fowl. J Hered. 62: 215-219

You can download the above from the internet. 

The following can be found at a university library

Kimball, E., 1954.Genetics of Birchen Plumage Pattern in the Fowl. Poult. Sci. 33: 472-481

Kimball, E., 1952a . Genetic Relation of Extended Black to Wild Type Plumage Pattern in the Fowl.  Poult. Sci. 31:73-79.

Kimball, E., 1960. Genetics of Wheaten Plumage in the Fowl. Poultry Sci. 39:768-774

Dunn,L.C. 1922. A Gene for the Extension of Black Pigment in Domestic Fowls.The American Naturalist , Vol. 56, No. 646 (Sep. - Oct.,), pp. 464-466

I have made extended black and black tailed red crosses and the research indicates the cross produces gold birchen like females and males that express some red in the pyle zone. My crosses agree with the research. 

The research shows that self black birds do carry additional melanizers; the chief two being melanotic and the pattern gene. There are other undocumented melanizers. 

Many self black birds are extended black or birchen at the E locus. Some self black birds carry the brown allele. Research shows that as a general rule extended black is dominant in females and incompletely dominant in males. 

Tim

Ps. I do not know where this high lighting came from.