Originally Posted by bdfive
Hello Deerman, first I want to say I hope you have a good day. Mine is going to be busy as usual but have had out of state family leave so now life can get back to our normal routine. Regarding feed, it's so darn difficult to find what's right around here and when you do locate some they drop the line and you're back to square one. Every time I need feed I have to call to see what's available at the time. Can't find a "breeder ration" anymore and only "grower" is 28%. I didn't know Tractor Supply carries gamebird......is it turkey you purchase from them? Are you saying the ingredients in UK is mostly corn? It's so yellow in color it makes me wonder. LOL, I've wanted to eat one to see what it tastes like but haven't conjured up the nerve, haha!!! I wish I could believe what you say about blended feed having what the bird needs in each bite. In this day and time of companies cutting back and the almighty buck being what's important in many industries I think even human food is lacking. I don't see anything wrong with mentioning a product known to be reliable and healthy for our pets/animals. I've heard Dumor is good feed. Also Sportsman Choice and we all know of Purina and Mazuri. I'm still not giving up on UK as a supplement .............will be very upset if I learn I'm giving them predominantly corn. Hmmmmmmmmm, maybe I should have it annualized. Anyone tasted it????????????????? Come on.....someone add a little milk and pretend it a scrumptious bowl of cereal and let us know what you think, LOL!!!
Remember, there is no such thing as cheap fast food. You may not pay for it at the cash register but someone has to pay for it. In all cases the health of you, your family and your animals pays for it. You cannot separate nutrition from health. Food is medicine. Better food=better birds. It's a very simple equation.
Formulating feed requires more than a text book and an ingredient label. Proprietary information isn't something one reads on a label.
To gain a comprehension of the topic at hand, one has to care to learn about the specific formulations- the levels of each tiny minute ingredient-
For example, what amino acids are included in a specific diet and at what ratios?
What antioxidants ""?
Hatchling Supplements ""?
Mycotoxin Solutions "" ?
Organic Acids and Essential Oils ""?
Essential Fatty Acids "" ?
Prebiotics "" ?
Mold Inhibitors ""?
Vitamin Premix ""?
What species were these diets developed around? Were they commonly kept Palearctic species like turkeys and ringnecks, bobwhites?
Were the products formulated for and by the commercial poultry industry?
Corn is a miracle crop. There is exactly nothing wrong with it. It feeds the planet and is the cornerstone of all livestock nutrition.
Some corn is grown primarily for ethanol, some for popcorn, some for corn syrup and some for swine etc.. There are literally hundreds of varieties of corn grown with commercial applications. How that corn is processed, and what part is used and at what quantities are important factors worth educating yourself on. All corn is not equal. For example, is the corn in your feed GMO? Does it produce its own insecticide? Is it round up ready? Do you have any curiosity where the grains that went into your feed come from? Do you want to know how its grown, where, by whom? I know I do.
UltraKibble contains corn and nearly an equal proportion of sorghum. It is soy free.
We source all the materials in our feed very carefully and support local farmers. We support sustainable agriculture. The ethics of sustainability are paramount to our company.
There are two different business models put to use in the animal nutrition business.
You have your bare minimum bread and butter scrape a buck low quality feed. That's the equivalent of a truckstop diner.
The animal health first profits last model is more in keeping with the ethics I maintain as animal husbander and steward.
Any nutritionist interested in the latter takes the health of your birds very seriously.
The big corporations that produce the former are not concerned with the long term health of your birds. Their first priority is and always has been profit.
The make a buck ration at the expense of health is inefficient and costs the consumer substantially more at the end of the month.
People unconcerned with their pocket book can feed as much cheap feed as they can fit in their truck. They're going to need to fill their vehicle with bags of feed because that's how quickly it goes through the birds and how much of that feed is required to sustain themselves. Then there's the issue of the disease vector created by conventional feeds, which disintegrate in ambient humidity and while being pecked on.
Have a look at the bottom of your feed bag. What is that at the bottom? Is that dust? Is that feed particulate going to readily mix with feather dander and fecal material and coat every surface area of the enclosure and bird?
The answer to all these questions is a resounding YES. But there's a trendy notion perpetuated in an alarming number of forums, which asserts that respiratory infections, i.e, "swollen eye", rattling breath, severe respiratory distress, can all be treated with wormers (highly toxic and unrelated), and intermuscular injections of antibiotics that may or may not be appropriate for the specific bacterial infection. These carriers that are only rarely fully treated are born and reared until sale- covered in poultry smut ( feed particulates X feather dander X fecal material X environmental dust). They are then sold and traded away where their unique strain of bacteria is spread to still another collection.
The person that treats a sick bird incorrectly further compromises its immune system.
Once the symptoms are no longer evident they ship it out. Then they tell you all you have to do is treat it incorrectly when it gets sick at your facilities. That doesn't happen with poultry that are just culled when they're infected.
I'll reiterate. You cannot separate nutrition from health. Food is medicine. Better food=better birds. It's a simple equation. Immune deficient birds are more prone to parasitic infestation and bacterial infection than those with immune systems that have not been compromised. That's not rocket science. It's poultry science. It's the science of animal nutrition and the discipline of animal husbandry. People that need to worm their birds at the drop of a hat and treat respiratory infections with antibiotics - are without exception feeding conventional soft pellets and/or crumbles as maintenance rations. Their birds are immune deficient. Don't take my word for it- study this forum and ask around. A sick bird was bought from someone else. And the person that sold that sick bird prescribed some haphazard remedy that treated the symptoms not the source of the infection.
In the zoo field animal managers are extremely reluctant to handle birds. Many of them are critically endangered. A sick bird is already have dead by the time it shows the symptoms of sickness. In the zoo, veterinarians are obliged by law to take blood and go through any number of other invasive procedures to adequately treat the bird. And you know that they will be exhaustively thorough in treating that bird- none of this- give it a shot and hope it gets better business. The birds will be treated as prescribed - they will be tested to determine if that infection is completely gone.
The point of this missive is to reiterate once again-
You cannot separate nutrition from health.
This is why the zoo field develops feeds of the highest quality- first- and then these feeds are adapted for use with pets.
A single Ethiopian Wolf suffering from malnutrition endangers an entire captive population. They are so rare, every animal in captivity is invaluable. That's why special diets are tailored for them by the best minds in the field-using state of the art methods.
The highest quality dog foods started out as zoo feeds for carnivores with similar biologies.
The highest quality cat foods started out as zoo diets for carnivores with similar biologies.
The scrape a buck pet feeds are made from all those byproducts that would otherwise be thrown away and wasted. That's not a bad thing.
But the objective of the scrape a buck feed is to make a buck with low grade byproducts from Lord knows where.
We should not be feeding peafowl like domestic poultry because
1.the feed manufactures are cutting costs and quality.
2. the feed is not formulated for peafowl
Those feeds were already substandard ten years ago- more so every year.
It's all about efficacy. Conventional feeds can only take you so far.
I feed a 50/45 blend of whole oats and millet with 5% brown rice. This dry mixture makes up the bulk of a daily ration for most species.
Deep forest subtropical species will not be provided oats. Ultra Kibble is fed at varying percentages entirely dependent on the age, stage of development, reproductive phase and species.
Of course fruit and greens are provided as I've outlined in peafowl nutrition 101.
Edited by Resolution - 4/9/12 at 11:21am