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FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them? - Page 750

post #7491 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImportTheBest View Post

So in that link with the FAQ on FF it basically says if you have chloramines in your tap water to not bother with FF unless you can filter it out. I looked up what is needed to filter out the chloramines and well, that's just not going to happen. sad.png

They're going to be getting the city water for drinking, that's just the way it is going to have to be. Is it really pointless trying to FF with the city water? Will it 100% not work? I was really excited to FF with my new birds and the meat birds to keep poop smells down and keep my ladies healthy and happy.

Does your city use chloramines or chlorine? Chloramines can't be evaporated out and will kill off the good fermenting bacteria. Essentially the food could not ferment.
post #7492 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsix View Post


I guess the thinking is that the chlorine will kill the bacteria that causes the fermenting process.  I think if you leave the water in an open container for 24 hours, most of the chlorine will go away.  You could always catch rain water.
Oy, seriously....I haven't slept well in the past few weeks and it shows because rain water never even crossed my mind as an alternative! I feel so silly, thank you for pointing out a rather obvious solution! I'll work on some sort of little catchment system from the roof of the coop we will be building or the backyard house gutters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPFarmstead View Post

Does your city use chloramines or chlorine? Chloramines can't be evaporated out and will kill off the good fermenting bacteria. Essentially the food could not ferment.
The report I read said chloramine, not chlorine, which is why I was so upset. Darn, I was hoping there was still hope for that water... But now I have a should-have-been-obvious solution to work on!

Thank you both!

Wife and Mama to 2 boys and 1 girl.

Chicken mama to 11! One each: Barnevelder, Buff Orpington, Silver Gray Dorking, White Crested Black Polish, Speckled Sussex, Welsummer, Easter Egger, Cream Legbar, Mystery White gal, and 2 Olive Eggers - one brown and one darker.

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Wife and Mama to 2 boys and 1 girl.

Chicken mama to 11! One each: Barnevelder, Buff Orpington, Silver Gray Dorking, White Crested Black Polish, Speckled Sussex, Welsummer, Easter Egger, Cream Legbar, Mystery White gal, and 2 Olive Eggers - one brown and one darker.

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post #7493 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullets View Post

How much sooner would you say your chooks lay than others of the same age? Also, can you go into more detail on the comparison if your friends/neighbors chooks to yours of the same age? This intrigues me. I've had my entire flock on FF since the very beginning and I have nobody to compare to.

On average 1 - 2 weeks earlier.  When I see friend's birds that are not on FF, they just don't have the same feather quality.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImportTheBest View Post

So in that link with the FAQ on FF it basically says if you have chloramines in your tap water to not bother with FF unless you can filter it out. I looked up what is needed to filter out the chloramines and well, that's just not going to happen. sad.png

They're going to be getting the city water for drinking, that's just the way it is going to have to be. Is it really pointless trying to FF with the city water? Will it 100% not work? I was really excited to FF with my new birds and the meat birds to keep poop smells down and keep my ladies healthy and happy.

Chloramine does take longer to break down than chlorine does.  Some folks use the water purifier that is meant to remove chloramine from water for fish tanks.  It breaks the bond and neutralized the chemical right away.  It's very inexpensive.  I'm playing the devils advocate here and saying that tap water treated with chloramine will work with FF, it will just take longer, and if you have some aged water handy for when ever you mix up the next batch of FF, it shouldn't be much more work, since you're going to have to put that water in a bucket anyways.  I think I've read that simply boiling water will break down the chloramine.  Any how, my devil's advocate thought process goes like this:  if you have city water, does that mean that you can't make yeast bread, or pizza dough?  B/C the same rational would work:  the chloramine should kill the yeast also.

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

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Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply
post #7494 of 8001

Chloramine is kind of a nasty chemical, but being more stable and more long-lasting than chlorine water authorities use it to keep pipes and water clean...and we all want clean water...don't we? :/

 

Chloramine will not evaporate like the old chlorine would.  Letting water sit out may actually increase its density being as the water will evaporate but the chloramine will not.

 

Try using vitamin-C.  It supposedly will convert chloramine into a basic salt which is friendly to most microbes in the levels that will result.  Chloramine is intended to wipe out microbes...the "bugs" in the water we drink.  Changing it to a different salt lets the microbes live a much happier life.  Google "vitamin c" and "beer brewing" together. ;)

 

It only takes a small amount of Vitamin-C...maybe only a part of a tablet for the amount of water we're talking about.  It will make the water more acidic which "should" be a positive thing for getting fermentation going.

 

First thing I would do, though, is to simply mix up a batch of feed and tap water and see if I really need to worry about it. :)

 

Best wishes,

Ed

Job 27:3-6   All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;  My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.  God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.  My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
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Job 27:3-6   All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;  My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.  God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.  My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
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post #7495 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post
 

On average 1 - 2 weeks earlier.  When I see friend's birds that are not on FF, they just don't have the same feather quality.  

 

Chloramine does take longer to break down than chlorine does.  Some folks use the water purifier that is meant to remove chloramine from water for fish tanks.  It breaks the bond and neutralized the chemical right away.  It's very inexpensive.  I'm playing the devils advocate here and saying that tap water treated with chloramine will work with FF, it will just take longer, and if you have some aged water handy for when ever you mix up the next batch of FF, it shouldn't be much more work, since you're going to have to put that water in a bucket anyways.  I think I've read that simply boiling water will break down the chloramine.  Any how, my devil's advocate thought process goes like this:  if you have city water, does that mean that you can't make yeast bread, or pizza dough?  B/C the same rational would work:  the chloramine should kill the yeast also.

Good points! My baking yeast has never had an issue with the city water, so there may be hope if I don't get my rain barrels set up in time for their arrival...although I am going to make that my goal. I read that you'd have to boil it for something crazy like 26 hours to destroy the chloramine, so that one isn't really an option.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intheswamp View Post
 

Chloramine is kind of a nasty chemical, but being more stable and more long-lasting than chlorine water authorities use it to keep pipes and water clean...and we all want clean water...don't we? :/

 

Chloramine will not evaporate like the old chlorine would.  Letting water sit out may actually increase its density being as the water will evaporate but the chloramine will not.

 

Try using vitamin-C.  It supposedly will convert chloramine into a basic salt which is friendly to most microbes in the levels that will result.  Chloramine is intended to wipe out microbes...the "bugs" in the water we drink.  Changing it to a different salt lets the microbes live a much happier life.  Google "vitamin c" and "beer brewing" together. ;)

 

It only takes a small amount of Vitamin-C...maybe only a part of a tablet for the amount of water we're talking about.  It will make the water more acidic which "should" be a positive thing for getting fermentation going.

 

First thing I would do, though, is to simply mix up a batch of feed and tap water and see if I really need to worry about it. :)

 

Best wishes,

Ed

I'll look that up, thanks! I'll definitely do a trial run before they arrive just to see if it is a big issue should my rain barrels be empty between rainfalls during the late summer, or if I'll be able to tide us over during dry spells with the city water!

 

Thanks so much!:jumpy

Wife and Mama to 2 boys and 1 girl.

Chicken mama to 11! One each: Barnevelder, Buff Orpington, Silver Gray Dorking, White Crested Black Polish, Speckled Sussex, Welsummer, Easter Egger, Cream Legbar, Mystery White gal, and 2 Olive Eggers - one brown and one darker.

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Wife and Mama to 2 boys and 1 girl.

Chicken mama to 11! One each: Barnevelder, Buff Orpington, Silver Gray Dorking, White Crested Black Polish, Speckled Sussex, Welsummer, Easter Egger, Cream Legbar, Mystery White gal, and 2 Olive Eggers - one brown and one darker.

Reply
post #7496 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsix View Post

For fermented feed - make a trough type wooden feeder by putting two boards together in edge to edge in a "V" shape and using two more small boards to cap the ends.   I ferment layer feed (either crumbles or pellets).  I've never bothered to feed the chicks fermented starter and grower feed.  Always seemed easier just to use the jar type feeders for the chicks.


 

Two quick questions; I'm thinking of making a larger feeding trough so all my birds can eat more peacefully without pecking order squabbles. How to you assemble the wood? Metal screws and nails are obviously out, as they would react with the acids in the FF. And two, what do you use to seal the wood? FF is wet and will eventually rot it I would think. Or at least promote mold.

D.gif  ~ ACORN ACRES in South Cackalacky jumpy.gif

 

Seven Easter Eggers, a Black Australorp, 1 Cuckoo Marans, An old Production Red,

and some really prolific oak trees!

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D.gif  ~ ACORN ACRES in South Cackalacky jumpy.gif

 

Seven Easter Eggers, a Black Australorp, 1 Cuckoo Marans, An old Production Red,

and some really prolific oak trees!

Reply
post #7497 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsix View Post
 

For fermented feed - make a trough type wooden feeder by putting two boards together in edge to edge in a "V" shape and using two more small boards to cap the ends.   I ferment layer feed (either crumbles or pellets).  I've never bothered to feed the chicks fermented starter and grower feed.  Always seemed easier just to use the jar type feeders for the chicks.

 

Two quick questions; I'm thinking of making a larger feeding trough so all my birds can eat more peacefully without pecking order squabbles. How to you assemble the wood? Metal screws and nails are obviously out, as they would react with the acids in the FF. And two, what do you use to seal the wood? FF is wet and will eventually rot it I would think. Or at least promote mold.

put the screws so the heads are on the outside of the trough.. I feed what they eat in 20 min so it's not in there long enough any way

eta mine still fight and I have several so they can run from one to another and grab a bite.


Edited by Molpet - 12/14/16 at 8:46am

Hens: 3 Black Jersey giants,  2 BR, 2 ISA ,  ...1 mix roo  ... labor day chicks 2 BJG mix (1 pullet), 1 BO mix pullet .. . Halloween chicks: 1 barred rock mix pullet and 4 cornish cross mix (1 pullet).... Easter hatch: 5 CX mix and 8 BJG or BR mix.Turkeys: 1 BBB hen ,  4 Narragansett jakes  Yummy.....

1 dog 2 cats

If the hen defends her chicks beneath her wings; how much more shalt...

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Hens: 3 Black Jersey giants,  2 BR, 2 ISA ,  ...1 mix roo  ... labor day chicks 2 BJG mix (1 pullet), 1 BO mix pullet .. . Halloween chicks: 1 barred rock mix pullet and 4 cornish cross mix (1 pullet).... Easter hatch: 5 CX mix and 8 BJG or BR mix.Turkeys: 1 BBB hen ,  4 Narragansett jakes  Yummy.....

1 dog 2 cats

If the hen defends her chicks beneath her wings; how much more shalt...

Reply
post #7498 of 8001
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsix View Post
 

For fermented feed - make a trough type wooden feeder by putting two boards together in edge to edge in a "V" shape and using two more small boards to cap the ends.   I ferment layer feed (either crumbles or pellets).  I've never bothered to feed the chicks fermented starter and grower feed.  Always seemed easier just to use the jar type feeders for the chicks.

 

Two quick questions; I'm thinking of making a larger feeding trough so all my birds can eat more peacefully without pecking order squabbles. How to you assemble the wood? Metal screws and nails are obviously out, as they would react with the acids in the FF. And two, what do you use to seal the wood? FF is wet and will eventually rot it I would think. Or at least promote mold.

Bee has already addressed this some where, but in a nut shell, simply use raw lumber.  I'd stay away from hemlock or cedar.  Obviously, don't use pressure treated.  Any other plain lumber should be fine.  I'd not use galvanized fasteners as they can leach zinc.  Eventually, your nails or screws will rust, no biggy.  just extra iron!  And as Bee says, the fasteners will be placed where the contact with FF will be minimal.  Your FF should be dry enough that it won't leak much moisture anyways.  She drills holes in her lumber to let any moisture out.  (See, Bee, I was listening!)  Her feeder gets picked clean between feedings, so it has time to dry out every day.

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply
post #7499 of 8001

That's what I was thinking, if there is enough room the lower ranking hens could always find a spot where they could eat in relative peace. Hmm, sudden left field idea, could the boards be bonded together using Epoxy?

 

And what about the surface of the wood? Should I paint/cover it with something to prevent mold or rot?


Edited by FlyWheel - 12/14/16 at 4:41pm

D.gif  ~ ACORN ACRES in South Cackalacky jumpy.gif

 

Seven Easter Eggers, a Black Australorp, 1 Cuckoo Marans, An old Production Red,

and some really prolific oak trees!

Reply

D.gif  ~ ACORN ACRES in South Cackalacky jumpy.gif

 

Seven Easter Eggers, a Black Australorp, 1 Cuckoo Marans, An old Production Red,

and some really prolific oak trees!

Reply
post #7500 of 8001

If you paint it, they will simply eat the paint off it.  If you seal it, what ever you use may react with the feed or leach into the feed.  Natural wood is non toxic, and would be a much better choice.  I'd simply use some cheap screws, and screw it together.  When it rots, if it ever does, replace it.  If you let them peck it dry once/day, it will be just fine.  It will be fine even if they don't peck it dry, I'm betting.  I simply go to the dollar store, and buy 3 or 4 cheap dog bowls.  Plop the feed into them, and spread them around in the run, or set a couple in the coop, one on their feeding station, and an other one on a hay bale.  I simply have not bothered to make a trough yet, though may need to in the spring.

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply
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