What next? These animals scare me.. - Page 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhen 


Okay, Thai... I truly do not want to offend YOU. I respect you and your opinions.
Its okay... feel free to state your opinions.
You are a good person and a smart man... and we dont always have to agree..
I just didnt like the way the other poster was being so aggressive.. almost attacking me. I dont tolerate that well because i'm a fiesty redhead..
I'll be good now...
And yes, i know we did work with Osama in the past(theres much more to the story there though.. not as simple as its being implied here....)...but that doesnt excuse what those animals did.. does it? Surely thats NOT what you are implying...

I'm happy to discuss things with people who don't agree with me. There wouldn't be much to discuss otherwise.    I'll allow for the fact that you're a redhead.

I can see no redeeming features in the Taliban but it's useful to consider their background and how they might see things in order to develop a sensible view, or even find a solution to the troubles in Afghanistan. My view is this. The Taliban and Northern Alliance are as bad as each other. Neither deserve support. Afghanistan will not become a democracy or a true friend of the West any time soon. They are best left to fight it out amongst themselves and find another way to satisfy the commercial needs of the West in that region. We are on to a hiding for nothing and it's heartbreaking to see young Western lives sacrificed for no ultimate gain.

The 'other poster' can speak for himself or herself but I don't think that the post was an attack on you personally. The havoc wreaked in the UK by the IRA and Protestant paramilitaries was truly horrendous and people are still sensitive about what was going on in those days. Many, if not most, British people believe that NI should be reunited with the Republic. It was once one country but was partitioned for short term political reasons and that has been a running sore ever since. The obstacle to reunification is the desire of the majority in the North to remain part of the UK. NI is in the UK but not part of Britain. A referendum in the whole of Eire, north and south, would probably opt for reunification. However, if that happened, the Protestant paramilitaries would probably take up arms again, having seen the benefits that the Provisional IRA gained from terrorism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhen 

What exactly IS the IRA fighting for anyways..?

Another war of religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhen 

What exactly IS the IRA fighting for anyways..?

They aren't fighting now because there is a good chance of a political solution.

Their aims are political - they want a reunited Ireland. Religion has become involved because NI has a Protestant majority and the Republic a Catholic majority. The stupid partition of Ireland was decided mainly on that one fact. The Protestant majority in the north took advantage of their strength in numbers and the Catholics, as a result, had a hard time getting good housing, schools and jobs. In the late '60's, things came to a head when the Protestant government, using a police force called the B Specials, brutally put down Catholic demonstrations. The British Army also made a terrible mistake by firing live rounds into a demonstrating crowd.

This gave the IRA its excuse to rearm and retaliate. Later, the commanders lost heart in fighting and splinter groups such as the Provisional IRA and Real IRA continued. The Protestants had their own terror force. Both terrorist groups were supported by some Catholic and Protestant clergy. It's thought that Gaddafi supplied arms and training to the IRA. The British government was in a cleft stick because of the violence from both sides and tried to control matters with the British Army. Government  Ministers were killed and a Conservative Party conference in Thatcher's time was bombed. I was in the North twice during those times and life for the locals was not good at all.

There had to be a solution, of course, but the determined violence made it impossible for many years. If the British Army pulled out, the government would have been blamed for the resulting blood bath. Many citizens on both sides seemed to want the violence to continue too.

Before long, the IRA bombings spread to Britain. They didn't seem to care that many British people supported their demand for a reunited Ireland, if not their methods. Their atrocities on the mainland of Britain remain fresh in the minds of many people there.

Partial break down:

http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/provisional-irish-republican-army-ira-aka-pira-provos-glaigh-na-hireann-uk-separatists/p9240

http://www.history.com/topics/irish-republican-army-ira

Responsible for a lot of surging support:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29

Popular radio song by a popular Irish band that uses the above event to make a point (I mention this because many in the US seem to like this song, but don't know what event it is referring to):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQZLPV6xcHI

Edit:  Oops, Thai, you beat me to it.  I grew up largely in England, and still look at unattended bags with unease.  It's funny, I heard so much about the IRA growing up, and yet so little.  I appreciate what you and others have posted in this thread because sometimes it seems as though we skip over how we got to where we are and how these groups don't just come out of thin air.  There are patterns and many different roles played, and really exploring these can help make way for a better future.

Punk, thanks for those links. Very helpful.

I see the U2 song as decrying the whole thing rather than taking sides. Having said that, Bloody Sunday was a shocking event that opened the doors for much of the violence that followed.

I know that this discussion about Ireland is a bit off topic but I hope that OP won't mind a bit more.

I used to make an annual salmon fishing trip to County Cork with a friend. On the first trip, we found an isolated local country bar and went in for an evening drink or two. At first, they were very wary of two Englishmen whom they hadn't seen before. We were watched at the fishing every day until they accepted us. There were two reason for this. Firstly, we may not be friendly and weren't too old to be British government agents, Secondly, illegal drugs were arriving in Ireland to be smuggled to Britain. Eventually, they decided that we were just two crazy fishermen who enjoyed Murphy's and a joke or two with them in the evenings. Each year after that we were given a warm welcome and a great send off on our last evening.

There was only one incident during all of our trips that may have been difficult. Remember that we were deep in Republican country and it was during the Troubles. Someone we hadn't seen before came in one evening, saw us and began to sing old Rebel songs. My friend knew some himself and, to everyone's surprise, began to sing with him. That avoided any tension but a lady, rather worse for drink, came to me and said. 'The pigeons are coming home to roost, aren't they?' This was just after a five year old had been killed by a litter bin bomb in England planted by the IRA. I replied, 'Patti, you're going back many, many years. The people from England who were exploiting your ancestors at that time were doing the same to mine. We're in the same boat and I agree with you that Ireland should be reunited.' She apologised and we shook hands. Oh that it could be that easy for those in power to do the same.

Is the british army the same army in england or is it a mix of english,wales, and irish?