Puppy behaving badly - Page 3

my mom was raise"farm" and her dad raised poultry from pheasants to quail to chickens. her nieghbor had 3 german shepards that hunted like wolves on egot shot after they mauled the other neighbors sheep but before that she lost half her flock(she had an average of 70 birds[mainly for food]) in less than an hour. i lost 8 birds to a couple of my neighbors dogs not to long ago (tuesday after easter) i checked on them befor diner then afterwards i brought them the leftovers and 6 dead birds ripped apart where scattered across the ground and 2 more bodies unaccounted for the dogs where running away at the time. i can hear the dogs bark every night now tring to get to them but get to them because the(the birds)y are on a different property

Just responding again because, I have been thinking about this thread a lot. I totally agree that the dogs should not run with the chickens or be friends with the chickens.

I think dogs need to be taught to respect chickens, cats, rabbits etc. They can be taught this as long as you have a solid obedience base. Would I leave my dogs in with the chickens?  Absolutely not. Will I walk them in the run with me and have them down stay until I am done cleaning absolutely.

Would I do any of this if any of them had already attacked one of my chickens or even looked at them cross eyed through the fence? No, I would not chance either getting hurt.

My dogs have a very large fenced in dog yard and they can see the chickens and the chickens have the large fenced in run and coop and they can see the dogs.

This is just how I do it and it has worked for me. My dogs are big fat lazy labs that have NO prey drive to speak of. They would much rather roll in a mud puddle or bask in the sun.

  Man, what a difference of ideas on training dogs and temperment. I find some of them a little confusing. Such a " why concern yourself that dogs and chickens run together". Now mind you I don't have a # 5 rated dog in the country. But to me and what I want, Morgan is #1. Naw, the chickens ain't his friends, but he know they are not toys to play with either. If the chickens are ranging all day and Morgan's outside all day, what a mess I would have if he didn't know what I expect, but then he's just a mutt. Some kind of herding dog mix, I think. I've had Dobermans and Samoyeds from championship lines. But Morgan is the best of the lot. If he does something I don't want, all I have to do is grunt and it's over. That's the end of it.

  I'll have to say, someone can have an obedience trained animal and he can still be out of control if there is no respect between master and dog. If you have a dog trained and is #5 in the nation in catagory and still wants to kill chickens, you don't have a very well trained dog. You have a show dog and that's where he need to stay. In the show ring.

  It just all matters in what you want. If one wants to show dogs and not work on the chickens aspect, then so be it. If one wants dog and chickens to co-mingle, then that's good too. Me, I demand any dog of mine do what I say when I say, even if he's a mutt. He is not allowed to have his head unless we are in position that I feel is ok and let him go. 

I have a Jack Russell Terrier who killed five of my chicks. I was crushed. I thought I could never trust him. Well, after hours (and I mean HOURS) of work, I can trust him when I'm right there beside him. If he's ever off leash or more than 10 feet away, I have no doubt he will kill my chickens.

HOWEVER. We have an eight-month-old Black Mouth Cur. These dogs are very small prey-driven. We had about seven eight-week-old roosters we had been letting free range, so we decided to start working her with them. We let the roosters free range while we had her our outdoors. Again, we spent a lot of time with her, first on the leash, correcting her if she ever made a move towards them. I think what excites a dog so much is the initial meeting -- when the chicken realizes a 50 pound predator is in front of it and freaks out and starts to scramble, and the dog thinks, Wow, this is *exciting*!

At the end of the week, I'm very happy to report yesterday we let her off leash and she never made a move towards the roosters. Even when we were 300 yards from her and she was alone, off leash, surrounded by seven chicks. I was so impressed and happy.

So I think it depends on the dog, but I believe many dogs, especially young ones, will try killing a chicken, if you don't put a lot of time into training it otherwise. 

sorry, "HOURS" of work isn't enough to trust a dog off-leash, even in your presence.   It is enough to lay a foundation, but you are setting the dog up to fail.    Once slip and you find out that you can't catch the dog and all of that training is undone.   Instead of being back at step 1, you are at step -5.     It takes weeks of follow up training to declare that a dog is trained enough to BEGIN trusting off-leash in your presence.    

Sorry that I didn't make myself clear....the dog that was #5 in the country was the dog that would allow baby rabbits to sleep on his back.  He was not just a show dog but a well trained show dog plus a much loved licensed therapy dog.  Not a mean, predatory bone in his body.  That was merely a comment to show that my dogs are trained and that I'm not afraid of the work it takes to make it happen. 

The dogs I have now are that well trained but, are of a different temperament.  You have to be able to read your dog and know what is/isn't safe.  I have sick chickens and/or chicks in my house with the dogs all the time.  They do not hurt/bother them.  They know that the house and the chickens are mine.  I've never had one touch a chicken.  That being said, the yard is a different story.  The dogs believe that is their territory.  If the chickens would run, the dogs will chase.  Their prey drive is high.  They would kill.  I will keep my place as I believe it is safest and everyone else can do the same. 

I just hate seeing people have their animals hurt/injured by one of their own and their reactions to it.  The OP was very upset and wanted to hurt her puppy for what it had done.  I have seen animals euthanized for less and I sometimes just don't understand why people want to take that kind of risk.

The dog you speak unkindly of was so well trained that I could call him off the back of a ***** in heat...Sorry, but you struck a nerve by commenting negatively on a dog that was the best animal that I ever had the pleasure of being owned by.

Please remember that not all dog breeds are bred to do exactly what you say and every time.  Most working dogs think for themselves and if they believe that they know better then you, then, guess what, they follow their heads. 

My dogs share a building with my chickens.  Dog kennels on one side, chicken coop on the other.  A two foot hall is all that separates them.  They don't even look at the chickens, or, they just wag their tails at them.  Would I turn them loose in the yard together?  Never.  Why?  Chickens run, dogs chase.  Even my cat knows this.  He will walk all over the dogs, sleep in their kennels and they don't care.  But, every once in a while the cat gets a gleam in his eye and runs willy nilly and the dogs give chase.  He loves it, they love it.  The cat knows to stop running, the chickens would not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole rooster 

  Man, what a difference of ideas on training dogs and temperment. I find some of them a little confusing. Such a " why concern yourself that dogs and chickens run together". Now mind you I don't have a # 5 rated dog in the country. But to me and what I want, Morgan is #1. Naw, the chickens ain't his friends, but he know they are not toys to play with either. If the chickens are ranging all day and Morgan's outside all day, what a mess I would have if he didn't know what I expect, but then he's just a mutt. Some kind of herding dog mix, I think. I've had Dobermans and Samoyeds from championship lines. But Morgan is the best of the lot. If he does something I don't want, all I have to do is grunt and it's over. That's the end of it.

 

  I'll have to say, someone can have an obedience trained animal and he can still be out of control if there is no respect between master and dog. If you have a dog trained and is #5 in the nation in catagory and still wants to kill chickens, you don't have a very well trained dog. You have a show dog and that's where he need to stay. In the show ring.

 

  It just all matters in what you want. If one wants to show dogs and not work on the chickens aspect, then so be it. If one wants dog and chickens to co-mingle, then that's good too. Me, I demand any dog of mine do what I say when I say, even if he's a mutt. He is not allowed to have his head unless we are in position that I feel is ok and let him go. 

excellent post leadwolf!    So many people don't understand the amount of training that needs to be done to reach that level.   And that different individuals, let alone different breeds, need to be trained and handled in different ways.  

In the end, why not just go for the easiest method - careful solid management with a good history of solid training.    Never leave dogs and birds unattended.   Never leave kids and dogs unattended.    I mentioned in another thread that it's like telling your 2 year old son not to play with matches.   He says "ok" and you then go out to a movie leaving the toddler alone in a room full of matches and expect him not to play with them.    

Thank you.  I saw your earlier thread post and agree totally. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dainerra 

excellent post leadwolf!    So many people don't understand the amount of training that needs to be done to reach that level.   And that different individuals, let alone different breeds, need to be trained and handled in different ways.  

In the end, why not just go for the easiest method - careful solid management with a good history of solid training.    Never leave dogs and birds unattended.   Never leave kids and dogs unattended.    I mentioned in another thread that it's like telling your 2 year old son not to play with matches.   He says "ok" and you then go out to a movie leaving the toddler alone in a room full of matches and expect him not to play with them.    

Somewhere the importance of dogs in a low intensity production setting has been forgotten.  Some parties are bringing expectations into mix that indicate dogs are overwhelmingly a threat.  I can think of no animal domestication efforts, excepting those with fishes, that did not involve dogs for either herding or guarding.  Now we have parties with what are best described as over priced pets that are directing us away from one of the many values dogs have, namely the farm setting.  You do not have to have a Ph D in animal behavior or formal training as a dog trainer to have trustworthy dogs.  When did this all become so difficult?

Never let a dog alone with a chicken, no matter how well trained. My english pointer Jessie is one of the most lovable and happy animals I've ever had. She is well controlled with a beeper collar she wears EVERY time she goes outside. I can let her instincts as a ranging animal take over and let her run too and fro, but the second she hears that beep, she runs right back to my side. She knows that daddy is king and to listen. But, she, like all dogs, is a wolf at heart. When that predatory instinct takes over, there isn't a sound in the world loud enough to stop her. She already has several kittens under her belt. Even with me at her side..she is genetically programmed to kill small fuzzy things and no amount of training in the world will ever get rid of that. I may be able to hold a kitten right under her nose and she'll set there looking at it, but as soon as the alpha, me, is gone, she will kill...quickly and very efficiently.

Bottom line, put your dog up when the chickens are out...and if other dogs come on to your property, tell the owners they get one warning before you put some rat shot in their butts!