Organic isn't always the best - Page 5

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Originally Posted by duckinnut 

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Originally Posted by OldGuy43 

I see. Free range = good. Living in a cage = bad. Having to hunt and scratch your own food = good. Being fed on a regular basis = bad. When stated that way kinda makes you go "Hmmmmmmmmm?" doesn't it?

That can translate to more than just chickens my friend.

Not going there!

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Originally Posted by OldGuy43 

Not going there!

That is precisely why it I left it vague,open for interpretation and to ones own thinking.

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Originally Posted by duckinnut 

That is precisely why it I left it vague,open for interpretation and to ones own thinking.

I think the thinking people "got" it.

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Originally Posted by janinepeters 

 

I did not say physiologically stressed, I said miserable, which relates to one's subjective experience.  Productivity is not a measure of contentment or misery.  A human can be beaten into submission on a daily basis, yet still be a highly productive member of society.  Battered wives and children are living examples of this.  Masochists may enjoy it, but the vast majority are miserable under such conditions.

Misery is indeed a symptom of diagnosable disorders in humans.  That we are not able to diagnose them in animals does not mean they don't exist.  Second, if a chicken is miserable from treatment by other chickens, it is not "the best of conditions".  In the best of conditions, rejected members of a flock would have the freedom to split off, find alternative habitat, and exist in peace.  Forced confinement is, by definition, not "the best of conditions".

The minimum legal requirements for animal care are not based on any attempt to estimate the degree of contentment or misery, and fulfilling them does not mean the animal is not suffering.
 

You may want to review some basic biology. Animals (not humans we are unique) routinely absorb a fetus when stressed or for self preservation.  Chickens do not reason the way people do and it is widely understood that they operate out of need. In other words they do not sit around and whine and complain about living conditions.

Not being able to diagnose a disorder in a chicken does not prove its' existence or non-existence.

Lets not forget the other problems that a chicken faces in a freerange situation that undoubtedly leads to a fate worse than stress... predators, if a chicken could reason they would stay in the coop.

Thankfully the legal system does not address the emotionally driven aspects of animal husbandry.

I have found misery loves company and there are disorders in which humans share that misery they observe in animals  to their detriment, in other words they become miserable themselves by perceiving a problem that does not exist or can be proven to exist although it is very real to them.

"In the best of conditions, rejected members of a flock would have the freedom to split off, find alternative habitat, and exist in peace."

I'm thinking that my chickens who get picked on by other chickens would NOT choose to split off, find alternative habitat and exist in peace, because it wouldn't be real peaceful for them when they got eaten.  While it may suck to get a little pecked on by other members of the flock, at least when it gets dangerous out, they can all run for the coop and their protected yard & run.  Better to lose a few tail feathers to another chicken than to lose your entrails to coyote. 

My chickens have a very large coop that they are free to use anytime they see fit, a very secure run attached to the coop and a fenced yard that's about .5 acre in size.  I have roughly 40 hens and 15 guineas.  The gate to the yard is generally open so they can go check out the horse barn, steal grain from the horses and cat food from the barn cats who don't eat them.  At night they all go back in their coop and if someone stands too close to someone else they might get pecked, but not because of lack of room or roost space.   None of them act like they think they ought to move out.

Wow those hens look like the pictures I see from CAFOs.  I read free range/organic can simply mean no antibios and roaming in a CAFO hen house. I wouldn't sell them looking like this even if it were a molt.