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WANTED: Good home for one adorable Australian Cattle Pup!!! - Page 2

post #11 of 18

What breed(s) would they have had to say for you to keep him?!?  

 

I can't think of any dogs that color/shape that wouldn't have been hunter or hearding types... 

 

Quote: http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-accurate-are-dog-breed-dna-tests.html

 

 

Here's a quote in its entirety form the posted link. (Click to show)

 

Breed identification DNA tests are a sure-fire way to make money for those who sell them, including veterinarians who are paid for product endorsement.

But do they work?

No. In fact, the results shown here are common: a pure-breed dog comes back as being a vague pastiche of three or four breeds.

Breed DNA tests are not too different from Gypsy Fortune telling, Fortune Cookies, the I-Ching, Numerology and Tarot Card reading: If you give a vague-enough answer, the believers will rationalize whatever result you give them, pounding the square peg into the round hole.

This is especially true for mixed-breed dogs. The folks sending in their dog's DNA for testing here do not care what the answer is, so long as it answers the question. Even an obviously wrong answer gives them a story to tell when someone, inevitably, asks: "What kind of dog is that?"

So what's going on? It's pretty simple: there are hundreds of breeds of dogs, but the DNA tests only definitely ID's a few dozen. The gaps are "filled in" by claiming a dog is a cross of this and that.

But what about the Mars Veterinary WISDOM Panel™ MX that the vets are selling? Surely that veterinarian-administered test works well, right?

Ughh .... NO. 

But don't take my word for it.

Mars Veterinary's own web site says the test is pure crap. Or, to be more precise, they say that if you actually KNOW what AKC breed of dog you have (because you have pedigree papers for your dog going back to the start of the registry more than 120 years ago) then they cannot help you.

But if you don't know what breed of dog you have, then they can positively tell you what you have.

Eh??? 

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

You're kidding, right?

Nope. Read it yourself here:

 

Why can't this test detect purebreds?

The WISDOM Panel™ MX test was designed to determine the breed makeup of mixed-breed dogs. Its development involved the analyses of more than 19 million DNA markers from more than 13,000 purebred and mixed-breed dogs to best tell breeds in a mixed-breed dog apart.

In order to determine if a dog is a purebred, Mars Veterinary would ideally need DNA samples that cover all family lines for each breed of purebred dog. But since their focus was the development of a test capable of accurately determining the breeds in a mixed-breed dog, they did not focus on collecting such a catalogue of purebred dog DNA samples.



What's that mean? Not a **** thing! It's poppycock. It's typing by a monkey. It's stupid on stilts, with a side-order of bunko and larceny.

It's the get-out-of-jail card the company can point to when their DNA "test" is shown to be inaccurate, pure crap, and a complete fraud.

In fact, the question itself is paired with this question: "Is Mars Veterinary worried about lawsuits?" This is their answer: Our test is so worthless we cannot identify your breed of dog if it is pure-bred. Our test only "works" when you have no idea what breed of dog you have.

So, NOdog breed DNA tests do not work.

Save your money. Or better yet, donate what you would have spent on this near-worthless test (about $150) to the local no-kill animal shelter.

 

 

 

 

Here is from the website itself: 

 

http://www.wisdompanel.com/breed_count_matters/breeds_detected/

 

http://www.wisdompanel.com/breed_count_matters/australian-cattle-dog/

 

 

Well he clearly didn't get a OUNCE of cattle dog look- 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Cattle_Dog

 

 

Important notes, full text see below:
Behavior:
 
They work as assistance dogs, so it clearly can be trained out of the full bred dogs.
When on home ground, the Australian Cattle Dog is a happy, affectionate, and playful pet.[8] However, it is reserved with people it does not know and naturally cautious in new situations. Its attitude to strangers makes it an excellent guard dog when trained for this task, however it can be socialised to become accustomed to a variety of people from an early age as a family pet. It is good with older, considerate children, but will herd people by nipping at their heels, particularly younger children who run and squeal.[10] 
 
Appearance:
 It has a broad skull that flattens to a definite stop between the eyes, with muscular cheeks and a medium-length, deep, powerful muzzle. The ears are pricked, small to medium in size and set wide apart, with a covering of hair on the inside.
Both red dogs and blue dogs are born white (except for any solid-coloured body or face markings) and the red or black hairs grow in as they mature. 
The Cattle Dog has a double coat—the short, straight outer guard hairs are protective in nature, keeping the elements from the dog's skin while the undercoat is short, fine and dense.[4]
 

 

So until your kid RUNS this is unimportant... you have one year give or take... ready- set- go-

 

 

The almost full text of the wiki (Click to show)

 

 

Quote:
As with dogs from other working breeds, the Australian Cattle Dog has a high level of energy, a quick intelligence, and an independent streak. It responds well to structured training, particularly if it is interesting and challenging. Although not aggressive it was bred to bite, and owing to the strong attachment it forms to its owners can be protective of them and their possessions. It is easy to groom and maintain, requiring little more than brushing during the shedding period. The most common health problems are deafness and progressive blindness (both hereditary conditions) and accidental injury; otherwise, it is a robust breed with a lifespan of 12 to 14 years. Australian Cattle Dogs now participate in a range of activities beyond the herding they were bred for, including competing with their owners in sporting events and working as assistance dogs.
 

 

Quote:

Appearance

Blue Cattle dog with a black spot over its eye
Black mask and tan markings on a blue dog

The Australian Cattle Dog is a sturdy, muscular, compact dog that gives the impression of agility and strength. It has a broad skull that flattens to a definite stop between the eyes, with muscular cheeks and a medium-length, deep, powerful muzzle. The ears are pricked, small to medium in size and set wide apart, with a covering of hair on the inside. The eyes are oval and dark, with an alert, keen expression. The neck and shoulders are strong and muscular; the forelegs are straight and parallel; and the feet round and arched, with small, sturdy toes and nails.[1]

The Cattle Dog breed standard states that it should have well-conditioned muscles, even when bred for companion or show purposes, and that its appearance should be symmetrical and balanced, with no individual part of the dog exaggerated. It should not look either delicate or cumbersome, as either characteristic limits the agility and endurance that is necessary for a working dog.[1]

[edit]Size

The female Australian Cattle Dog measures approximately 43–48 centimetres (17–19 in) at the withers, and the male measures about 46–51 centimetres (18–20 in) at the withers. The dog should be longer than tall, that is, the length of the body from breast bone to buttocks is greater than the height at the withers, in a ratio of 10 to 9.[1] An Australian Cattle Dog in good condition weighs around 20–28 kilograms (44–62 lb).[2]

[edit]Coat and colour

A puppy whose red hair has not yet developed

There are two accepted coat colours, red and blue, though chocolate and cream do occur. Blue dogs can be blue, blue mottled, or blue speckled with or without black, tan, or white markings. Red dogs are evenly speckled with solid red markings. Both red dogs and blue dogs are born white (except for any solid-coloured body or face markings) and the red or black hairs grow in as they mature. The distinctive adult colouration is the result of black or red hairs closely interspersed through a predominantly white coat. This is not merle colouration (a speckled effect that has associated health issues), but rather the result of the ticking gene. A number of breeds show ticking, which is the presence of colour through white areas, though the overall effect depends on other genes that will modify the size, shape and density of the ticking.[3]

In addition to the primary colouration, an Australian Cattle Dog displays some patches of solid or near-solid colour. In both red and blue dogs, the most common are masks over one or both eyes, a white tip to the tail, a solid spot at the base of the tail, and sometimes solid spots on the body, though these are not desirable in dogs bred for conformation shows. Blue dogs can have tan midway up the legs and extending up the front to breast and throat, with tan on jaws, and tan eyebrows.[1]Both colour forms can have a white "star" on the forehead called the "Bentley Mark", after a legendary dog owned by Tom Bentley.[4] Common miscolours in the Australian Cattle Dog are black hairs in a red-coated dog, including the extreme of a black saddle on a red dog, and extensive tan on the face and body on a blue dog, called creeping tan.[5] The Cattle Dog has a double coat—the short, straight outer guard hairs are protective in nature, keeping the elements from the dog's skin while the undercoat is short, fine and dense.[4]

Cattle Dog head with an alert expression
A Cattle Dog with a single mask and a bentley mark shows the breed's typical alert expression.

The mask consists of a black patch over one or both eyes (for the blue coat colour) or a red patch over one or both eyes (for the red coat colour). Depending on whether one or both eyes have a patch, these are called, respectively, "single" (or "half") mask and "double" (or "full") mask. Dogs without a mask are called plain-faced. Any of these are acceptable according to the breed standard. In conformation shows, even markings are preferred over uneven markings.[1]

[edit]Tail

The breed standards of the Australian, American and Canadian kennel clubs specify that the Australian Cattle Dog should have a natural, long, un-docked tail. There will often be a solid colour spot at the base of the tail and a white tip. The tail should be set moderately low, following the slope of the back. It should hang in a slight curve at rest, though an excited dog may carry its tail higher. The tail should feature a reasonable level of brush.[1]

In the US, tails are sometimes docked on working stock. The tail is not docked in Australia, and serves a useful purpose in increasing agility and the ability to turn quickly.[6] The Australian Cattle Dog is a breed distinct from the Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog, a square-bodied dog born with a naturally "bobbed" tail. The Stumpy Tail resembles the Australian Cattle Dog, but has a taller, leaner conformation. It occasionally has a natural long thin tail, but most are born without tails.[7]

[edit]Temperament

Like many working dogs, the Australian Cattle Dog has high energy levels, an active mind, and a level of independence.[8] The breed ranks 10th in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, rated as one of the most intelligent dogs ranked by obedience command trainability.[9] The Cattle Dog needs plenty of exercise, companionship and a job to do, so a non-working dog might participate in dog sportslearning tricks, or other activities that engage its body and mind.[8]

When on home ground, the Australian Cattle Dog is a happy, affectionate, and playful pet.[8] However, it is reserved with people it does not know and naturally cautious in new situations. Its attitude to strangers makes it an excellent guard dog when trained for this task, however it can be socialised to become accustomed to a variety of people from an early age as a family pet. It is good with older, considerate children, but will herd people by nipping at their heels, particularly younger children who run and squeal.[10] By the time puppies are weaned, they should have learned that the company of people is pleasurable, and that responding to cues from a person is rewarding.[11] The bond that this breed can create with its owner is strong and will leave the dog feeling protective towards the owner, typically resulting in the dog's never being too far from the owner's side. Aggression in an Australian Cattle Dog is more likely to be directed at strangers than owners or other dogs,[12]though it will bite if treated harshly.[10]

While an Australian Cattle Dog generally works silently, it will bark in alarm or to attract attention. It has a distinctive intense, high-pitched bark. Barking can be a sign of boredom or frustration; however, research has shown that pet dogs increase their vocalisation when raised in a noisy environment.[13] It responds well to familiar dogs. However, when multiple dogs are present, establishing a pecking order can trigger aggression. It is not a breed that lives in a pack with other dogs.[10]

 

 

 

 

The test is full of it - That dog has little to no ACD...

 

 

The song of a shelter dog...

 

Quote:

I am a forever dog,

not an: 

 

until you move dog,

until you get a job dog,

until I grow up dog,

until I bore you dog,

until you have children dog,

until you find a mate dog,

until you get some other animal dog,

 

I am a forever dog.

 

You promised me forever and lied.

 

Returned shelter dogs have the short end of the stick, the shelter never knows if you 'broke' the perfectly good puppy they trusted you with.

 

The shelters around here have a 'do you have children? are you expecting children?' part of the questions, answering yes has you do a second question sheet- 'do you know what behaviors are normal for a (animal type) of (shelter enters age of animal here)? Are you prepared to do the training or pay trainers to assist with these possible problems? Are you aware 'because I'm having a baby cost thousands of dogs and cats their lives every day? What happens if the (animal) shows fear or agitation of the new child? Why do you want a (animal type) of (animal's age)?'

 

Sorry they didn't make you think about this better- Some private shelters here make you go home w/o the animal and come back in a week or two (after the neuter is done some people they make then wait till the stitches are dissolved or removed, most people just till the surgery is finished and the animals has had one day of observation and pain med) - I wouldn't want to be housebreaking and nursing at the same time. However in my opinion you signed up for this- 

 

Looking at that dog he's CLEARLY some type of hunting breed (mix) what did you expect?! 

 

"DNA test are in you have an angle dog, he is a type that will automatically housebreak and automatically be perfect in every way even though he is an uncivilized puppy... wow you are really lucky. you will not have to do any work and this dog will be perfect around strangers, other pets, small animals and children...only three of these dogs exist at any one time... you are so blessed"


Edited by FireTigeris - 6/18/12 at 7:06am

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 Scientist and Tutor, expert at nothing, opinions on everything.

2012 Art Contest runs till Midnight EST Dec 31st 2012

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/634433/2012-coloring-contest-rule-thread

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post #12 of 18

Puppies in general are nippy. Give the pup more time to grow out of it if you can.

http://www.communitywalk.com/pa_bycers/pa_bycers/map/1552784


LF and Bantam LANGSHANS in blue and black, and Barred Hollands.

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http://www.communitywalk.com/pa_bycers/pa_bycers/map/1552784


LF and Bantam LANGSHANS in blue and black, and Barred Hollands.

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post #13 of 18
I have a cattle dog, and grew up around them. If there is any in there, it sure didn't show up in this photo! As others have said, pet DNA tests are not reliable, and some companies are more inaccurate than others.

Most puppies nip. Lab puppies nip. Hound puppies nip. Golden retriever puppies nip. Nipping in puppyhood does not mean you have a cattle dog by any means. Even if you did have a cattle dog, you have a young puppy who can be taught that all members of the family are to be respected, and that inside time is calm and quiet time, that outside the house is for playing. That is something anyone with a family should be teaching any breed of dog unless they want a hyper lab bowling kids over and scratching up the floors. Something I've seen far too often because people did not put time into training their dogs when they were puppies or adults.

It is up to the owner to teach their puppy what behaviors are appropriate. Our cattle dog was adopted as a 3 or 4 year old adult with little socialization. She would jump up and nip so hard we would be bleeding, bruised, and have our clothing torn. This behavior was one of excitement for her, and strongly ingrained by that point. It still only took a bit of gentle, consistent training to get the dog we have today. She now runs to get a toy or a stick if she is just beside herself with excitement, and humans have been established as something never to nip. That process would have been even easier had she been a puppy, and never would have reached the stage where skin and clothes were at risk. Other cattle dogs may not ever have any inclination to nip, and still others would want to nip ankles. The solution is always the same. Training.

I'm not personally going to try to convince the OP to keep this puppy. Chances of rehoming now are much better than having them find out a dog is too much for them later and trying to rehome. I would encourage very careful thought before trying to bring another puppy or dog into the house. Nipping and energy are what puppies do. Any breed. Adopting an older dog who is already trained (you still have to reinforce it) and proven to be calm and gentle is what i would suggest if another dog is to be attempted.
Edited by punk-a-doodle - 6/18/12 at 12:58pm
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 

Wow!!! Thank you for all the encouragement and information!!!

 

Pretty good advice I would contact the humane society first. I just wouldn't let him go to anybody. I think the humane society does an excellent job and a great service for animals. I am a huge fan.

 

We've been playing baby sounds for him. I did read that somewhere I think that's great advice! He's done exceptionally well with training. My husband and I work on that daily. He loves everybody he meets. Everyone in the neighborhood adores him and he loves everyone. He does well with the others in his obedience class too. One of the girls down the street comes over to play with him almost everyday now that she's out of school for the summer. I feel like he only gets overly nippy with her my husband and I because he's comfortable with us. We're obviously able to correct him. I read that it's not good to take puppies to the dog park. Apparently it can overwhelm them when they're still learning how to socialize. I was thinking a little Doggy day care would help him with some additional socializing.

 

As far as small children they love him until he overwhelms them. I figure it will take time before he's more acclimated. He's never aggressive just a typical playful pup. I think he's the sweetest thing alive!!! 

 

I guess I felt it would be selfish to keep him after what I read about the breed. We're also going to have to move soon because of work reasons. Naturally I'd rather keep him and work on it. I just thought it would be easier to find him a home when he's still a puppy. They specifically say this breed needs the consistent training for up to three years and that even though they're good family dogs and great with children. The children have to be old enough to correct the negative and reinforce the positive just like our neighbor down the street does. Also our dog trainer said it can be quite difficult for the cattle breed to break from the nipping because it's in their very nature.

 

 

It's good to hear different opinions. After thinking about it and reading all the positive and encouraging comments I don't feel I am being selfish by keeping him :) A big thanks to everyone!!!

post #15 of 18

those things are true of all breeds.   yes, puppies are always easy to find homes for.  Unfortunately, they are hard to find FOREVER homes for.

All puppies are going to get overly excited and nippy though some individuals might be worse than others.    Doggie daycare would be a great way to make sure that he gets the exercise that he needs.   I wouldn't worry about taking him to dog parks or day care to socialize with other dogs unless you plan on filling your house with dogs in the future.    My goal in training is that my dog be neutral around other dogs.

Go to the park (human park!) and just stay off on the sidelines watching the kids play.    If he knows to sit for petting, it would be ok to let one or 2 calm friendly children greet him.   Make sure that he keeps his bottom on the floor as this will help prevent nipping.    Don't have the children pat him on top of the head as this can also encourage excitement in dogs.   have them hold out their hands for a sniff and then pat him on the chest.

Don't worry - he will be happier to stay with the family that he knows and loves.   He sounds like a very smart dog and he will adjust to family life.    

post #16 of 18

Bit of a late post but Im an Aussie and your pup , while gorgeous looks nothing like an Aust. Cattle Dog. This is a picture of my sisters purebred Cattle Dog (or Blue Heelers) as we call them. She is ancient & one eyed but as still a perfect representation of the breed.Some a quite a bit taller than her though. They also come in red but a mottled red like the blue. Saying all that I agree with others posts, any dog trained properley & socialised properley should be fine BUT never trust any dog alone with a small child. As per previos post, socialise him with other kids now. By the way my sister's dog has NEVER nipped anyone.200.jpg Hope you keep your pup.

post #17 of 18
I have a Australian cattle mix as well she was GREAT with my son when he was born. If my Dobe wasn't in her way watching him do everything she was always right next to him. Also when he was just starting to walk around my yard I turned my back on him and he started to walk up to our driveway and she barked and tride to keep him in the yard to the point she grabbed the back of his pants. So do NOT just take others words on it, I didn't know what my big girl was untill maybe a year ago and if you read what they say about them. And what I have are nothing alike!

 

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~*~ In the wilderness is the preservation of the World ~*~

 

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post #18 of 18
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