blackshoulder question? - Page 2

Okay,this has had me thinking all day that possibly my reply back was wrong,since it has been rejected,,,but the more I  thought about it,the easier it became clear that my first reply is right.I  just went out and took pics of 1 of 3 purple b/s split to peach peacocks that I have that hatched last July,,pay close attention and see if you see any color resembling blue on his wing feathers anywhere in this pic taken about 5' away,?

Here is another picture taken a little closer,,you can easily see the midrib of the feathers here yet I still cannot see an entire feather blue or black,,,which was said when new feathers comes in,they are either 1 of these 2 colors,,

Now for the last pic,which to me substantiates my first post here,,and you don't have to squint to see this either. I caught the guy,opened his wing and put him on my leg,,during the struggle he did manage to put a nice slice on my left hand,,but it is very,very clear here,that the feather DOES NOT come in all black  or blue,rather as time proceeds,the feather CHANGES to all BLACK,,it's very evident by looking at the feathers midrib that the lower part of some feathers are already totally black,and on the other half of the feather,it still has NOT changed to solid black,,(still squinting hard here to see a blue or completely black feather) it looks lite brown-tan,,the feather midrib is also  now completely black,,and you  can clearly see on the top half of the feathers next to the midrib,the pigment is growing OUT as BLACK,,soon the entire feather will be solid Black,,Feathers grow from the rib outwards,,not the outside edge inwards,,

Nathowe,,your post #6 saying feathers do NOT CHANGE COLOR,,,the pics I just posted above then,in your opinion,,this bird will die looking as he does now?? Since feathers DON'T CHANGE color ?? What is happening to the feathers on the wing in my pic on post #13?? they evidently didn't come in all blue,or all black,,yet at least  half of the feather is now black with some black now extending on the other feather half,and I bet in 5-6 more months,the entire feather will be solid black,,,,how is this occuring if it was supposed to already be solid black,when it came in and it never changes color?

DAS,your post #7 says once the bird molts the new color comes in,,the bird I took pics of is not molting,,but your saying this feather will stay looking the same,until it falls out,,then will come back all solid black? it will be another 3 months before my young birds molt,,and I bet by that time,this male will have solid black feathers,,not waiting for a molt to grow in solid black ones.You can see the progression of the black pigment already,,and this bird along with the other 2 has gotten significantly darker all summer,,yet no piles of feathers or half naked birds are in the pen from molting,,,,

Frenchblackcopper...Not a big deal.  At all.  Please don't let it ruin your day .  Does the OP have a pic of their bird?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfrost 

So is it normal for the black shoulders neck feathers aren't all that blue there more green right now is this normal?

Yes, yearling males often have a "greenish" hue to the neck rather than a blue one.

Here's my barred wing male at 1 year, you can see that his neck is more green- and this can go for any of the IB mutations (BS, pied, etc):

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchblackcopper 

If this is the case,why do I see a lite brown-tan-rust pigment in the wing feathers of the bird in post #7??  They surely are not solid black,nor white,.nor blue,,or am I getting color blind? I was referring to your post #4 saying They simply get blackish/blue feathers that come in to replace the white/black feathers they once had   If this is the case,that these feathers "come in" blackish/blue,,,where is all that tan-rust colored pigment coming from on the side of the wing on the bird in post #7?  That tan-rust color will slowly be replaced with the pigment of black,,as the bird grows,,,your saying these feathers are already blackish/blue so where did the tan-rust color come from? These two colors are not mentioned anywhere,,but I can see them,,

FBC, the flights on most birds (those not split to white or some white relative like pied) will be burnished orange almost regardless of color, this includes the solid wing mutation. "Blackshoulder" is a actually a misnomer. "Blackshoulder" was the first india blue mutation (out of all of the color and pattern mutations), and because it was in an india blue bird, the wing appeared black, thus the term 'blackshoulder' was coined. That being said, obviously not all colors have black shoulders if they are considered 'blackshoulder' birds. A more appropirate (though not likely to become more common) term for this mutation is "solid wing" as what the mutation does is remove the barring from showing in the bird. Obviously an opal BS doesn't actually have "black" wings; it has solid opal/silver wings, and purples have solid brown wings, and cameos have solid brown wings and so on. This is why it's occasionally mentioned that "blackshoulder" should be phased out as a phrase, because it's so confusing!

At some point, you are right, FBC- the feathers of a solid wing bird will show a sort of "lacing" to them where there is white/tab/brown in the center of the feathers and that's usually at 1 year of age. By two they should be growing in those nice blue-black feathers (or whatever solid color) like Nathowe says.

Here's an image of a yearling IB solid wing so you can see the tan/brown/white in the center of the black feathers (which I think Nathowe was referring to as plain black, since they are mostly black, and FBC is trying to explain the white center, which is evident here):

As an aside, FBC: Notice that the bird still retains his burnished orange flights at the edge of the wing like you noticed in the earlier post- this is because the solid wing genes do not effect the primaries of the bird, only the secondaries and cover feathers. So any solid wing bird will have one solid color for the wing EXCEPT for the primaries, which will be some form of the burnished orange of the IB birds; it's lighter in some of the dilute colors like opals, appearing almost tan, but it's definitely a different color than the rest of the wing.

Hope that clears up some confusion!

As another aside, peacocks are not "overhaul" molters (excepting the males dropping train) like some birds, so when the word "molt" is used for them, it means the process by which the bird drops feathers here and there and slowly replaces their entire pelt, a process which can take a few months to complete. Feathers, like fingernails, are "dead", so they literally cannot change their color. They grow out already formed inside of a sheath that the birds preen off of each feather, so there is no "growth" of the tines once they are past the skin. The feather shafts grow to the appropriate length, and the tines may grow inside the sheath under the skin. The reason your bird will appear to be changing the color of its feathers without a major "molting" phase (no naked or half naked birds), FBC, is because your bird will be slowly dropping feathers here and there. They grow in pretty fast once a feather is dropped, and chances are you won't notice new feather shafts until after the bird has preened the sheath off. So it'll look like all the same feathers, but really be new ones!

I have a five year old blackshoulder that still has a little white in his wings.  It takes a while to totally turn black/irridescent.  As Kedreeva said feathers cannot change color once they leave the sheath.  Blackshoulder feathers can be black/irridescent at the tip or base and black/white at the opposite end however.  My peafowl, with the exception of the train, moult all year long.  They are not like my chickens that have a set period where they go into a definite moult period.

It has been proven that the iridescence in peafowl is related to a structure on the feathers as well as pigmentation.  Apparently the ability to produce the structure increases with age.