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Getting the flock out of here - a diary of a crazy chicken man - Page 423

post #4221 of 14235
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFchixranch View Post
 


And the by products ie fish scales meal and guts can feed the chickens/hogs which will cut down on ur total feed bill.. win win

I like your thinking :) I wouldn't want to feed fish by products to chickens though.. this is due to the effects on egg taste :sick 

post #4222 of 14235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozexpat View Post
 

For me its actually a crazy hair brain scheme to get a nice juicy red tomato.

 

Our everyday fish comes from the sea in front of our house. its 20km to the nearest factory - a sugar cane mill so the waters are clean.

 

The way i see it is that the by products of the fishing industry - fish meal - or ground up tuna bones blood guts and waste meat is readily available but harvesting of local young fish is not great for my local ecosystem. I cant control the tuna boats but I can conciously object to raping and pilaging of the beach in front of us. I would much rather feed this scrap to a fish and eat that fish. 

 

Conseptually I like the idea of farmed fish but knowing where the fish comes from is a big thing.

 

I am not a hippy nor a radical homesteader. I am not even against GMO grains (please dont start that argument here lol). I dont remotely prefess to be organic and have little faith in herbal remedies. I think that you can use science to your advantage. I feel its better to use a chemical (naturally found or man made) in pure and controlled quantities. Antibiotics, insecticides and such have their place if used judiciously. Putting something in your (or my) body just because it comes from a plant is more illogical than refining the plant, extracting the active ingredient to its purest form and shoving that down my neck.

 

I do believe that I should take advantage of the situation I have been blessed with. If I can grow food and therefore decrease my carbon foot print then why not. Its a terrible waste of land to not care for it and in turn let it care for you.

 

The feed truck drives past my place every week. It might as well drop off fish feed as well as soy meal, rice bran and copra meal. 

 

Money is not the pivotal decider but I also have to strive for budget nuetral at minimum otherwise I am just donating money to my workers in the form of fish.

 

And maybe, just maybe, I can eat a tomato grown at my place.


I think a lot of people go way too extreme with a lot of things. I'm a very accepting person, and I have friends in all niches.. I have 'Monsanto is the devil' friends and the kind that don't care what's in a hotdog. Liberals and Libertarians... I'm middle of the road on a lot of things.

 

GMO -could- be used for good, and it -could- be used for bad. Sadly, certain companies are using it for bad.. chasing the almighty dollar. But hey, rice that's more nutritious and easier to grow, awesome! Pesticides and the likes... I don't like the idea of spraying that stuff directly onto my food, but I sure as heck spray it around my house :lol: As with a lot of things, moderation and common sense is key. But Lord knows those are hard to come by these days :rolleyes:

The internet is an awesome tool, but at the same time it's terrifying how easily folks get riled up about some of the half-truths and circumstantial evidence. Ofcourse, a lot of it is arm-chair rioting :lol:

In the end, what -I- hope to achieve is what you're doing, Oz. On a much smaller scale ;)

3 kids: 2 boys, 1 girl.
1 dog: Havanese x Beagle: Will.

2 cats: Scooter, Harley B. Binkerton.

55 gallon aquarium with barbs, tetras and a cory. 5 gallon aquarium with mollies.

10 hens: production red, Plymouth rocks (white, barred, partridge), Jersey giant, Australorp, Marans and a Easter egger.
9 pullets: Olive egger/easter egger, not laying yet.
4 muscovy: 1 drake, 3 hens.

Reply

3 kids: 2 boys, 1 girl.
1 dog: Havanese x Beagle: Will.

2 cats: Scooter, Harley B. Binkerton.

55 gallon aquarium with barbs, tetras and a cory. 5 gallon aquarium with mollies.

10 hens: production red, Plymouth rocks (white, barred, partridge), Jersey giant, Australorp, Marans and a Easter egger.
9 pullets: Olive egger/easter egger, not laying yet.
4 muscovy: 1 drake, 3 hens.

Reply
post #4223 of 14235
Thread Starter 

I cannot mention the "M" word corporation in the above post. I am in trouble enough already.

 

 

Please do not start a debate over them.

 

So I was bored this afternoon and started fine tuning spreadsheets.

 

The blending of our own feeds has been going well but I wanted to drill down on amino acids as well as vitamins minerals and trace elements. I must have read 200 pages of poultry and swine nutrition info.

 

I have been adding a vitamin and electolyte premix from here.  About a week ago I made contact with a Chinese manafacturer of vitamin suppliments using my @cocobeachpoultry address. (they are reputable btw). They OFFERED to sending me 10lbs of the stuff as a sample. I just have to pay shipping. SCORE. It mixes in at 1oz per hundred pounds of feed. It should last a while.

 

I fiddled and farted over my spreadsheet looking at all sorts of combinations to get protein and lysine levels where I want them.

 

TO MAKE 100KG Starter Grower Finisher Layer
  0-6 6-12 12+  
fish meal (kg)        
soy meal (kg) 22 10 7 7
rice bran (kg) 78 85 68 68
corn bran (kg)        
copra meal (kg)   5 25 25
Salt  (g) 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00
Vit & Elec  (g) 50.00 50.00 50.00 50.00
Selenium (mg/100kg) 50.00 50.00 50.00 50.00
Biotin (mg/100kg) 50.00 50.00 50.00 50.00
Oyster Shell (kg) 0.50 0.50 0.50 2.00
Amprolium 20% (g) 63.00      
         
Protein % 21.9 17.4 15.3 15.3
Lysene g/kg 11.5 8.4 6.9 6.9
         
Price per 100kg Php ₱2,094 ₱1,550 ₱1,389 ₱1,389
Price per 100kg USD $49.86 $36.90 $33.07 $33.07
Price per 50lb USD $11.47 $8.49 $7.61 $7.61
         
Store bought pellets        
Price per 100kg Php ₱2,650 ₱2,550 ₱2,520 ₱2,520
Price per 100kg USD $63.10 $60.71 $60.00 $60.00
Price per 50lb USD $14.51 $13.96 $13.80 $13.80
         
savings per 50lb $3.04 $5.48 $6.19 $6.19
         
         

 

 

I am currently using the equivalent of 13 x 50lb sacks per month spending $105 and saving $80 over store bought product

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply
post #4224 of 14235
Thread Starter 

I did the same for pigs..........................

 

its looking like it could be worth the venture.

 

I want to set up the piggery so that I have 2 sows farrow every 10 weeks.

 

That will give us enough time for a missed pregnancy and not need more than 2 farrowing crates built. 

 

Ten sows seems to be the magic number for me. Its enough to justify room and board for a boar as the local inseminator gets the pick of each litter as payment. That would be 20-25 piggletts a year and would trim $1200-1500 off anual weaner sales.

 

Upon final approval of Mrs Oz I will start with 2 weaner gilts at Thanksgiving and 2 more the 1st week of Feb and so on. The first pigletts would be born mid-late August.

 

As Mrs Oz is heading back to our island with a small shipping container I scored 120 sq feet of plastic pig flooring for farrowing pens and weaners. I sent Mrs Oz off to pick it up today. Bless her for putting up with me.

 

And the aquaponics........

 

I might have a source for one of those 250 gallon IBC tanks..................

 

Thanksgiving is going to be a busy week.

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply
post #4225 of 14235
Thread Starter 

ever wonder what nutrients are in feed products? It took a while to collate this into a spreadsheet so I might as well post it

 

    copra rice bran soy fish meal maize
Main analysis Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Dry matter % as fed 91.5 90.2 87.9 92.2 87.2
Crude protein % DM 22.4 12.7 51.8 70.6 9.5
Crude fibre % DM 14.2 16.3 6.7   2.3
NDF % DM 54.7 34.4 13.7   11.9
ADF % DM 28.7 19.6 8.3   3.1
Lignin % DM 6.7 6.8 0.8   0.6
Ether extract % DM 9.8 14.4 2 9.9 4.1
Ash % DM 6.8 12.4 7.1 18.4 1.4
Total sugars % DM 11.4 2.8 9.4   3.1
Gross energy MJ/kg DM 20.1 20.2 19.7 20.4 18.7
Minerals Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Calcium g/kg DM 1.2 0.7 3.9 43.4 0.2
Phosphorus g/kg DM 5.8 13.8 6.9 27.9 2.9
Potassium g/kg DM 20.1 12.3 23.7 8.7 3.5
Sodium g/kg DM 0.6 0.2 0.1 11.3 0
Magnesium g/kg DM 3 6.5 3.1 2.3 1.2
Manganese mg/kg DM 84 138 45 16 13
Zinc mg/kg DM 73 55 54 96 23
Copper mg/kg DM 33 9 18 7 2
Iron mg/kg DM 964   346 367 21
Amino acids Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Alanine % protein 4 5.8 4.4 6.3 7.5
Arginine % protein 10.7 7.2 7.4 6.2 4.9
Aspartic acid % protein 7.7 9.3 11.3 9.1 6.8
Cystine % protein 1.2 1.7 1.5 0.8 2.2
Glutamic acid % protein 17.8 12.7 17.7 12.6 18.1
Glycine % protein 4.1 5.2 4.2 6.4 3.9
Histidine % protein 1.9 2.4 2.6 2.4 2.9
Isoleucine % protein 3 5.3 4.6 4.2 3.6
Leucine % protein 5.9 7 7.5 7.2 11.8
Lysine % protein 2.6 4.4 6.1 7.5 3.1
Methionine % protein 1.3 1.9 1.4 2.7 2.1
Phenylalanine % protein 4.1 4.4 5 3.9 4.8
Proline % protein 3.4 4.6 4.9 4.2 8.7
Serine % protein 4.4 4 5 3.9 4.7
Threonine % protein 3 3.7 3.9 4.1 3.5
Tryptophan % protein 1.3 2.2 1.3 1 0.7
Tyrosine % protein 2.1 3.4 3.5 3.1 3.4
Valine % protein 4.7 5.4 4.8 4.9 4.9

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply
post #4226 of 14235

My god Oz! How do you have time for all of this? You must never sleep.

post #4227 of 14235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozexpat View Post
 

ever wonder what nutrients are in feed products? It took a while to collate this into a spreadsheet so I might as well post it

 

    copra rice bran soy fish meal maize
Main analysis Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Dry matter % as fed 91.5 90.2 87.9 92.2 87.2
Crude protein % DM 22.4 12.7 51.8 70.6 9.5
Crude fibre % DM 14.2 16.3 6.7   2.3
NDF % DM 54.7 34.4 13.7   11.9
ADF % DM 28.7 19.6 8.3   3.1
Lignin % DM 6.7 6.8 0.8   0.6
Ether extract % DM 9.8 14.4 2 9.9 4.1
Ash % DM 6.8 12.4 7.1 18.4 1.4
Total sugars % DM 11.4 2.8 9.4   3.1
Gross energy MJ/kg DM 20.1 20.2 19.7 20.4 18.7
Minerals Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Calcium g/kg DM 1.2 0.7 3.9 43.4 0.2
Phosphorus g/kg DM 5.8 13.8 6.9 27.9 2.9
Potassium g/kg DM 20.1 12.3 23.7 8.7 3.5
Sodium g/kg DM 0.6 0.2 0.1 11.3 0
Magnesium g/kg DM 3 6.5 3.1 2.3 1.2
Manganese mg/kg DM 84 138 45 16 13
Zinc mg/kg DM 73 55 54 96 23
Copper mg/kg DM 33 9 18 7 2
Iron mg/kg DM 964   346 367 21
Amino acids Unit Avg Avg Avg Avg Avg
Alanine % protein 4 5.8 4.4 6.3 7.5
Arginine % protein 10.7 7.2 7.4 6.2 4.9
Aspartic acid % protein 7.7 9.3 11.3 9.1 6.8
Cystine % protein 1.2 1.7 1.5 0.8 2.2
Glutamic acid % protein 17.8 12.7 17.7 12.6 18.1
Glycine % protein 4.1 5.2 4.2 6.4 3.9
Histidine % protein 1.9 2.4 2.6 2.4 2.9
Isoleucine % protein 3 5.3 4.6 4.2 3.6
Leucine % protein 5.9 7 7.5 7.2 11.8
Lysine % protein 2.6 4.4 6.1 7.5 3.1
Methionine % protein 1.3 1.9 1.4 2.7 2.1
Phenylalanine % protein 4.1 4.4 5 3.9 4.8
Proline % protein 3.4 4.6 4.9 4.2 8.7
Serine % protein 4.4 4 5 3.9 4.7
Threonine % protein 3 3.7 3.9 4.1 3.5
Tryptophan % protein 1.3 2.2 1.3 1 0.7
Tyrosine % protein 2.1 3.4 3.5 3.1 3.4
Valine % protein 4.7 5.4 4.8 4.9 4.9

edited because I didint read the column headers..... Duh.... 

deb


Edited by perchie.girl - 11/4/13 at 12:31am

Past poultry: Buff Brhama, EE, Barred rock, Wellsummer,

Bantam mixes, Araucana, Turkeys, & Guinea Fowl.

Future poultry:  Guinea Fowl, Sumatra, Wellsummer, Muscovy

"A dream without a plan is just a wish" Katherine Paterson

Regarding the horses in our lives

 

Reply

Past poultry: Buff Brhama, EE, Barred rock, Wellsummer,

Bantam mixes, Araucana, Turkeys, & Guinea Fowl.

Future poultry:  Guinea Fowl, Sumatra, Wellsummer, Muscovy

"A dream without a plan is just a wish" Katherine Paterson

Regarding the horses in our lives

 

Reply
post #4228 of 14235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozexpat View Post

 

 

The difference is the ability to grow vegetables (which we cant do with our soil)

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Is that because you are on beach sand? There are a lot of ways to improve the soil and with  your growing collection of animals it will get easier and better each year. If any seaweed washes up on your beach collect it and put on garden space, add all the litter from the chicken and other pens. I was on a fine sand when I lived in TX and it took 3-5 years of very heavy applications of organic matter to really build it up, even then took a lot of water because it just ran through the sand. However I did discover a good trick of burying all my butchering waste below the garden beds, that really helped. Another help was to keep everything mulched, I was able to get shredded tree trimmings delivered, for permanent landscaping beds I laid down thick layers of cardboard and newspaper to help keep out the weeds then covered with about six inches of mulch, added more mulch as it sank down and decomposed. In ten years you couldn't see sand in the upper few inches, just rich soil like in a forest.





My Edible Garden http://edible-garden.blogspot.com/ Current bird count; about 40 + or - a few chickens, 7 ducks; Easter Eggers, Olive eggers, Buff Orpingtons, Ameraucana, Black Copper Marans, Buff Plymouth Rocks, Muscovy and Welsh Harlequin ducks.

Reply





My Edible Garden http://edible-garden.blogspot.com/ Current bird count; about 40 + or - a few chickens, 7 ducks; Easter Eggers, Olive eggers, Buff Orpingtons, Ameraucana, Black Copper Marans, Buff Plymouth Rocks, Muscovy and Welsh Harlequin ducks.

Reply
post #4229 of 14235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maryhysong View Post
 

Is that because you are on beach sand? There are a lot of ways to improve the soil and with  your growing collection of animals it will get easier and better each year. If any seaweed washes up on your beach collect it and put on garden space, add all the litter from the chicken and other pens. I was on a fine sand when I lived in TX and it took 3-5 years of very heavy applications of organic matter to really build it up, even then took a lot of water because it just ran through the sand. However I did discover a good trick of burying all my butchering waste below the garden beds, that really helped. Another help was to keep everything mulched, I was able to get shredded tree trimmings delivered, for permanent landscaping beds I laid down thick layers of cardboard and newspaper to help keep out the weeds then covered with about six inches of mulch, added more mulch as it sank down and decomposed. In ten years you couldn't see sand in the upper few inches, just rich soil like in a forest.

Indeed it is the sand, but also the salt.

 

We are trying to build the soil and in an area of about 3000 sq feet where we have hardwood trees planted ver close to each other we have the slightest makings of soil. We do grow camote there.

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply

 ++Egg Shippers Please Read++       Hatching 101 by Sally Sunshine 

 

A wife & 2  kids we ADOPTED in the Phils .  immigrant chooks, all sorts of poultry goats & a water buffalo. 

 

want to help some needy people and have an adventure? - check out "The Chicken Mission

Reply
post #4230 of 14235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozexpat View Post
 

Indeed it is the sand, but also the salt.

 

We are trying to build the soil and in an area of about 3000 sq feet where we have hardwood trees planted ver close to each other we have the slightest makings of soil. We do grow camote there.

It takes awhile and it takes waaaay more organic matter than the books tell you to put on. Example, most books recommend adding 1/2 to 1 inch of manure or compost per year or growing season; on my sand I added 6 inches of vermicompost every three or four months; when ever I was starting a new crop. Also keeping several inches of mulch around the plants as soon as they were big enough.

 

You might want to watch all of the parts that go with this video; here they find a way that desalinates the soil

http://youtu.be/xzTHjlueqFI





My Edible Garden http://edible-garden.blogspot.com/ Current bird count; about 40 + or - a few chickens, 7 ducks; Easter Eggers, Olive eggers, Buff Orpingtons, Ameraucana, Black Copper Marans, Buff Plymouth Rocks, Muscovy and Welsh Harlequin ducks.

Reply





My Edible Garden http://edible-garden.blogspot.com/ Current bird count; about 40 + or - a few chickens, 7 ducks; Easter Eggers, Olive eggers, Buff Orpingtons, Ameraucana, Black Copper Marans, Buff Plymouth Rocks, Muscovy and Welsh Harlequin ducks.

Reply
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