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Rooster Booster multi-wormer...why won't my chickens eat it? - Page 3

post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinShien View Post
 

 

Well, I didn't know the chickens wouldn't eat it.

 

 

How do you worm yours then: paste, liquid pellet, what?


That wasn't directed at you. Often we don't know how well a product works unless information is available beforehand, and even then, a superior product that is more practical is found to replace it. You are doing what you can for your birds. I prefer Valbazen suspension (Albendazole) which is a liquid wormer. It can be found in most feed stores or you can order it from an online seller. I give it with a syringe that has no needle. The dosage is .5 cc for large fowl and .25 cc for Bantam size. It is given orally. You dose once, then do it again in 10 days.


Edited by Michael Apple - 10/22/13 at 2:38pm

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post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinShien View Post
 

 

Well, I didn't know the chickens wouldn't eat it.

 

 

How do you worm yours then: paste, liquid pellet, what?

 

There are many different types of wormers on the market; therefore there are different administration methods depending upon the wormer and your needs/preferences. A number of the wormers come in several different forms, so you have a choice of how to administer.

 

Wazine (piperazine) comes in a liquid form that is generally added to the water.

 

Safeguard/Panacur (fenbendazole) typically comes in a paste tube and you administer pea size blobs to them either by inserting it into their beak or like one earlier poster suggested filling raspberries (or any other food) and that they will eat. Depending on the livestock targeted, it also comes in pellet and liquid. 

 

Pyrantel comes in an suspended liquid and is applied by droplet into each bird's mouth.

 

Ivermectin is just like the dog/cat stuff and you administer a dosage of liquid at the base of the neck between the wings.

 

Hygromycin B currently only comes in pelleted form that you administer by mixing it with the feed.

 

Each wormer targets a specific type of worm, some target a more broad range of worms. Depending upon your preference and needs, generally it is best to rotate wormers as worms can build up a resistance to a particular type.

 

Of all the wormers mentioned, only Hygromycin B is FDA approved for chickens used for eggs for human consumption. (Which matters if you sell eggs...doesn't if you don't and don't care). It is the only one that does not require egg withdrawal (tossing)...you could chose to still toss if you desired. Slaughter withdrawal is 3 days.

 

The rest do not carry egg withdrawal instructions on the labels as they are not sold for egg layers. Many use the slaughter time for withdrawal for poultry (if given). The general rule of thumb is 14 days for egg withdrawal from the last dose.  You generally need to dose once, then dose again in a week to 10 days, depending upon the medication and type (READ label!)...so it usually means tossing eggs for about a month.

 

Lady of McCamley

 

EDITED TO ADD: The -zole types (and Hygromycin) work by starving the worms from nutrients by interfering with the metabolism of either protein or an essential food element; -mectin works by interfering with the neural system within the worm causing paralysis and death. The -zoles are generally poorly absorbed by the gut, the -mectins are well absorbed and hince systemic (which is why they are used for the parasites for River Disease which often target the eyes).


Edited by Lady of McCamley - 10/22/13 at 3:10pm

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

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Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

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post #23 of 38

And btw...in case this has gotten lost in all the information provided....

 

Chickens do eat Hygromycin B pellets, generally very readily.

 

I found the best way to acclimate them, if they seem hesitant, is simply to mix the med pellet with something sticky. I don't think it is the taste but the fact that the pellets are very hard (based upon the fact that Hygromycin B is toxic if inhaled...so they make the pellets very hard so there is little dust.)

 

My best method for any hesitant bird was to mix the Rooster Booster pellets in with wild bird seed (my birds love the millet in it), and some regular feed pellet and just enough yogurt to moisten things up. My birds gobble that up without a second thought to the harder pellet of the Hygromycin B.

 

Generally after doing that once, I don't even need to put it in a special mash at all. They eat the medicated pellets mixed into their feed just fine.

 

The commercial poultry industry just mixes it in the feed continuously.

 

Lady of McCamley


Edited by Lady of McCamley - 10/22/13 at 3:21pm

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady of McCamley View Post

 

Each wormer targets a specific type of worm, some target a more broad range of worms. Depending upon your preference and needs, generally it is best to rotate wormers as worms can build up a resistance to a particular type.

 

Of all the wormers mentioned, only Hygromycin B is FDA approved for chickens used for eggs for human consumption. (Which matters if you sell eggs...doesn't if you don't and don't care). It is the only one that does not require egg withdrawal (tossing)...you could chose to still toss if you desired. Slaughter withdrawal is 3 days.

 

The rest do not carry egg withdrawal instructions on the labels as they are not sold for egg layers. Many use the slaughter time for withdrawal for poultry (if given). The general rule of thumb is 14 days for egg withdrawal from the last dose.  You generally need to dose once, then dose again in a week to 10 days, depending upon the medication and type (READ label!)...so it usually means tossing eggs for about a month.

 

Lady of McCamley

Bottom line is if you want a wormer that doesn't target all worms, must be added to feed, and is given the green light by that "trustworthy" government agency called the FDA, then use Hygromycin B. If you want a truly effective wormer that removes all worms, has been tested for its safety by University professors for use in poultry, and have to sacrifice 24 days worth of eggs, use Albendazole.

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post #25 of 38

That's a good post me Lady. My theory is since the -zoles are poorly absorbed the amount in an egg would be negligible but there have been no studies yet so no FDA approval. Withdrawal periods are pure speculation and may not even be necessary. Maybe with more and more people raising their own chickens companies might pop for the tests to hit a growing market. That seems to be what Rooster Booster has done.

post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H View Post
 

That's a good post me Lady. My theory is since the -zoles are poorly absorbed the amount in an egg would be negligible but there have been no studies yet so no FDA approval. Withdrawal periods are pure speculation and may not even be necessary. Maybe with more and more people raising their own chickens companies might pop for the tests to hit a growing market. That seems to be what Rooster Booster has done.


I stand corrected.....

 

And for Albendazole


Edited by Scott H - 10/22/13 at 3:49pm
post #27 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady of McCamley View Post
 

And btw...in case this has gotten lost in all the information provided....

 

Chickens do eat Hygromycin B pellets, generally very readily.

 

I found the best way to acclimate them, if they seem hesitant, is simply to mix the med pellet with something sticky. I don't think it is the taste but the fact that the pellets are very hard (based upon the fact that Hygromycin B is toxic if inhaled...so they make the pellets very hard so there is little dust.)

 

My best method for any hesitant bird was to mix the Rooster Booster pellets in with wild bird seed (my birds love the millet in it), and some regular feed pellet and just enough yogurt to moisten things up. My birds gobble that up without a second thought to the harder pellet of the Hygromycin B.

 

Generally after doing that once, I don't even need to put it in a special mash at all. They eat the medicated pellets mixed into their feed just fine.

 

The commercial poultry industry just mixes it in the feed continuously.

 

Lady of McCamley

Tried the mash method. They picked around the hard, green pellets. Either silly chickens or smart chickens. I'm trying to get rid of roundworms given to them by the local stray/feral cats. There's a barn full of them behind us. They stalk the chickens every evening. I think the cats are crapping in our yard after dark, too. They're also hanging around the brooder. I could start a rant on how much I don't like feral cats, but I won't.

22 chickens, 3 dogs, 1 horse and 2 bettas

 

 

 

NEVER APPROACH A GOAT FROM THE FRONT,

 

A HORSE FROM THE REAR

 

OR A FOOL FROM ANY SIDE

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22 chickens, 3 dogs, 1 horse and 2 bettas

 

 

 

NEVER APPROACH A GOAT FROM THE FRONT,

 

A HORSE FROM THE REAR

 

OR A FOOL FROM ANY SIDE

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post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinShien View Post
 

Tried the mash method. They picked around the hard, green pellets. Either silly chickens or smart chickens. I'm trying to get rid of roundworms given to them by the local stray/feral cats. There's a barn full of them behind us. They stalk the chickens every evening. I think the cats are crapping in our yard after dark, too. They're also hanging around the brooder. I could start a rant on how much I don't like feral cats, but I won't.


They can pick up roundworms from bugs, earthworms, and rodents too. Be glad you have some cats to keep rodent populations down. Rats are bad spreaders of Cholera and can wipe out a flock quickly with a bad strain of it. I used to catch cats in cage traps every so often and take them down to the Humane Society. They'd get spayed/neutered and placed, or at worst Euthanized. I kept a few and they have turned out to be very good cats.

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post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinShien View Post
 

Tried the mash method. They picked around the hard, green pellets. Either silly chickens or smart chickens. I'm trying to get rid of roundworms given to them by the local stray/feral cats. There's a barn full of them behind us. They stalk the chickens every evening. I think the cats are crapping in our yard after dark, too. They're also hanging around the brooder. I could start a rant on how much I don't like feral cats, but I won't.

It is unlikely your chickens are picking up the round worms from the cats but rather have been infected from wild birds or earthworms (and each other, or other poultry on the premises). Most worms are species host specific...ie worms that infect a dog or cat don't usually infect a cow or a chicken. My dogs eat chicken poo anytime they can make it to the backyard (ewwwww) but they are very unlikely to get the worms from the chickens as they are not the type that infect dogs.

 

Having said that, out of the thousands of worm species, there are a few types of worms that do cross over to a larger host spectrum. You can see a good chart on the species of worms and which hosts they infect here: http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2561&Itemid=2842

 

Therefore it is important to use meds that will target the specific worm species you are dealing with at the dosage necessary. To be most effective then, if you can afford it, and many vets will do this for a nominal fee, have a fecal test done to determine the worm type you are dealing with. That will help you to chose a wormer that best suits your needs. (Which can help with determining which wormer is most cost effective as well as best for the worm type.)

 

Since you are needing to treat 50 chickens, a feed based or water based wormer would be a good choice which will limit your options to wormers that come in that form.

 

If you are certain you are dealing with round worms, and wish to stay within legally approved wormers for poultry (just not egg layers) then Wazine may be a good choice as it is very inexpensive and easily found in the liquid form with correct dosing for chickens right on the label; however worms can build up a resistance to it. 

 

If you are uncertain what type of worm you have, and don't want to bother with a vet fecal, or simply want to target a larger worm base, then something like Safeguard/Panacur (fenbendazole) or Valbazen (albendazole) would be a good choice understanding that since those are not approved for poultry in the US, you will have to carefully compute dosage amounts since they won't be listed on the label.  Be aware that if you treat with fenbendazole during a molt, their feathers will grow back in funky.

 

I don't have all those dosage formulas in my head readily, as it is dependent upon the wormer you pick up and its solution strength which varies with each livestock targeted, but you can google BYC for dosages. This site is also useful to help with choosing meds and dosages for poultry: https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/medicine-chart

 

Lady of McCamley

 

EDITED TO ADD: here's a good summary of round worm control in poultry 

http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/phi/PHI/ROUNDWORMS%20PHI%20Handout%20from%20Dr.%20Smith.pdf


Edited by Lady of McCamley - 10/22/13 at 8:20pm

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H View Post
 

That's a good post me Lady. My theory is since the -zoles are poorly absorbed the amount in an egg would be negligible but there have been no studies yet so no FDA approval. Withdrawal periods are pure speculation and may not even be necessary. Maybe with more and more people raising their own chickens companies might pop for the tests to hit a growing market. That seems to be what Rooster Booster has done.

Precisely...the big commercial growers don't worry much about chicken disease or worms because it is most cost effective to simply cull the bird. It makes it harder for the backyard or small farm owner to find products (or even a vet to treat them).

 

However, with the idea of locally grown and sustainable food gaining popularity, and the general public desiring to have more control over their own food sources, the market will respond making more products available to the smaller farm consumer. Rooster Booster has done that. I haven't seen Valbazen for poultry use (and thus dosage on label) since it would be off label, but Wazine is still approved for meat chickens and thus has the dosing right on the label and comes in a form easily dispensed in water.

 

I predict that as the FDA gets more pressure from manufacturers desiring to tap into the small grower/backyard grower market, we will see an influx of better and more diverse products for poultry.

 

And for the sake of clarity within this thread...I never stated the FDA makes any claims as to the efficacy of products. It oversees and determines what is legal to be manufactured and sold in the US as pertains to food and drugs and how those products can be used with the purpose of upholding public safety and consumer protection. Its oversight is mainly concerned with safety and honesty. Political wrangling and lobbying obviously comes into play, however, it does use peer reviewed research to validate its support of the products it approves generally in response to pressures placed upon it by the public and interested manufacturers. (However fun, and at times just, it is to dish the federal agencies, they have to go through a very public and complicated process of validating their decisions). The point of understanding FDA approval is so as a poultry owner I know where my legal obligations (and risks) lie...it also makes it easier to know which products are targeted specifically for poultry and thus will have been manufactured at the proper strength with dosages clearly outlined on the label...per thanks to the FDA.

 

Lady of McCamley


Edited by Lady of McCamley - 10/22/13 at 8:50pm

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply

Lady of McCamley, Keeper of 15+ egg layers

(currently GSL, BSL, BR, Wellies, Buff Wyandottes, Delawares, 4 barnyard mixes, 2 EE's, 2 BCM's, my faithful Broody Silkie "Oma-San"....and currently 4 Rhodebar and 4 Buckeye chicks with broodies...and I still want more...

Adored by 1 Sheltie, Humble servant to 1 cat; 

Still Mom to 3 wonderful grown children; Loving wife to a very tolerant husband

Reply
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