with that being said i want to share what this genius of a person and his forum will state...this guy is something else people he is truly a genius and has more info then any person i have every met in my life...this is what he says....just a portion on his thread.....
Anyone interested in a reconstituted cemani - and let me reiterate clearly, cemani is not a breed. It's a carefully selected morphotype. When specific genetic matrix are line bred for generations cemani are produced. That's only 25% of the equation. Black boned cemani morphs bred together should produce Hsian Dragonbone, which is the "wild type" that Indonesian stock reverts to. This is critical because in these birds we can recognise what degree of bekisar genetics are expressed in that lineage. Quality cemani are produced by breeding from dragonbone. That will seem counter-productive to some people. They want cemani to produce cemani . In Western cultures there is also a tendency to cull and dump stock that is actually invaluable. In Indonesia those individuals that don't look like cemani are simply named accordingly to their type. Dragonbone being a prime example.
In these mirror phenotypes of Indonesians produced in North America and Europe -without the benefit of recent infusion of genetics from Indonesia - I don't have confidence what "wild type" will be produced. The degree of development of modern breeds refined in the west is much greater than that in Indonesia. Each breed breeds true. They produce more of the same and most of the stock is really well bred. People don't fool around. If they are rearing a chicken breed -specialising in a specific breed it's going to be a ribbon winner or close to it.
I tend to think that these Western black fowl will produce nothing but black. Unless there is Indonesian genetics involved I rather doubt anything resembling "wild type" will be produced.
Jet black birds will be dominant. They may well have a variety of different comb type and naturally the degree of pigmentation is going to vary from bird to bird. There are also different kinds of pigment involved including typical melanin and eumelanin. Different black boned fowl carry different levels of these pigments and there are additional pigments accrued from additional genetic infusion involved as well. More specifically, the pigments responsible for producing vivid blue are inherited from a green junglefowl ancestor. I won't go into that right now but these pigments are involved in hyper melanism of the darkest cemani.
That said, frizzled silky like stunts hatch with increasing frequency with each generation of line breeding. These birds should not be used to breed dragonbone but can certainly be used in other stock-or just eat them...
It's essential to comprehend what genetic elements are going to be pivotal to your success.
Chooks Chicks is developing a black boned fowl (from imported Indonesian stock) with a pea or leaf like elfin comb- ironically the comb of the Gambar taproot of many cemani in Indonesia. I came to agree with her- and think that comb type may be as- if not more- appropriate for North American climates than the gargantuan comb and wattles of equatorial lineages.
The most important stock to avoid using is the silky. That's a disqualification of the largest degree. If you want to breed black boned breeds that are not the Indonesian type- crests and extra toes- the traits of silkies may be acceptable to a point- but to arrive at an Indonesian morphotype you've got to have the discipline to not use silkies, especially as your heirloom lineages will eventually be recombined with other poultier's best efforts and your silky outcrosses are going to screw everything up.
That said, this lovely ashen grey bird is just gorgeous and I'd use her in a minute!!! WHAT?
The most important mother stock- that is the female line that will serve as your reservoir is the Black Java. Don't worry about melanin yet- for now you just need the appropriate bloodstock. There is no better taproot for this constitution than large boned healthy Black Java hens. You'll never use a Black Java rooster so don't bother purchasing one.
The next gene stock that will prove absolutely pivotal for that Black Java lineage is the absolutely best quality miniature Sumatran rooster you can find. He should be tiny and black or better yet dark blue.
The Dark Blue Sumatran Bantam rooster is bred to the Black Java hen. F1 daughters are all keepers. That F1 lineage " New-Sunda" is what everyone ready to collaborate and cooperate should be ready to trade and move amongst one another. The very best rooster- and that's totally subjective- he may be dark skinned or just have the best conformation- or the best comb or better yet the best temperament- whatever your choice is- regardless of how close he is to "cemani" is held back. That F1 "New-Sunda" rooster is bred back to his mother. All other roosters go into the freezer. Do not breed from them.
F2 Daughters of this backcross are also keepers but only breed from the darkest hens. Don't worry about their conformation just their pigmentation.
Ok so you're wondering what the male lineage will be used other than the F1 "uncle brother" rooster - -back to him in a moment-
The F1 "New-Sunda" females are to produce another lineage of F2 from which roosters will be bred to those darkest F2 hens produced through backcrossing.
When everyone is clear on that convoluted mess I'll continue.
So- there's your foundation- the mother stock.
check out his forum and read it.....a must....