Controversial Discussions

I was just speculating on the question "how busy is too busy", of course I don't assume that everyone has to deal with the same set of circumstances. The predators point of my post was only a very minor one, because I know our situation is unusual and we are lucky to not have to deal with predators.

It's unfortunate that they've lost so many chickens due to preventable factors - perhaps you could stop selling them chooks until they do build a pen. Maybe you could help them if you have time, are they really are too busy to do it themselves but they'd still like to have chickens? You sound like someone who knows what you're doing, and you've tried your best to improve their attitude. People definitely shouldn't be thinking about keeping chickens unless they've thought it over and prepared thoroughly - or are willing to learn and do some work to provide adequately for their chickens, if they were thrown into the situation with little notice

Fierlin1182 said:

I was just speculating on the question "how busy is too busy", of course I don't assume that everyone has to deal with the same set of circumstances. The predators point of my post was only a very minor one, because I know our situation is unusual and we are lucky to not have to deal with predators.

It's unfortunate that they've lost so many chickens due to preventable factors - perhaps you could stop selling them chooks until they do build a pen. Maybe you could help them if you have time, are they really are too busy to do it themselves but they'd still like to have chickens?

You sound like someone who knows what you're doing, and you've tried your best to improve their attitude. People definitely shouldn't be thinking about keeping chickens unless they've thought it over and prepared thoroughly - or are willing to learn and do some work to provide adequately for their chickens, if they were thrown into the situation with little notice

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It's not just the predators, they don't clean the coop out often, they let the chickens gets mites, they feed them poisonous things etc. It's a wonder they don't get cocci or Mareks, and if they did how they would understand what is going on!

Most backyard chicken owners I have found around my are know absolutely next to nothing about chickens. They just have them, feed them food scraps, occasionally clean their coop/ run out and usually keep them in unsuitable conditions.
I don't expect them to go out and get REALLY into chickens ( like me.lol. ) but say when you get a dog, you don't just go out and buy a dog. You research the breed, make sure you have room and adequate equipment for them. Why do people think this isn't necessary for chickens?

I keep giving them chickens because their son is my friend and they are a close family friend. Also, I have tried to inform them and I have even told them that they should make a better coop so that they can actually have chickens for more than a couple of months.
What annoys me even more is they ask why the new chickens I have given them are not laying right!?!?!?

cluckcluckluke said:

when you get a dog, you don't just go out and buy a dog. You research the breed, make sure you have room and adequate equipment for them. Why do people think this isn't necessary for chickens?

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It's amazing how many people get dogs without doing any research at all. They see the cute puppy and just get it. The same applies with almost any animal with the exception of big farm animals, I don't think there are many impulse buying when it comes to cows or horses lol

Impulse buying of animals happens all the time, and unfortunately it usually is dogs. About six months after 101 Dalmatians came out the local pounds and rescues were flooded with unwanted Dalmatians. The same happened when the Chichiwawa movie came out. When Paris Hilton got the miniature pot belly pig it happened yet again.

Baby animals are cute and hard to resist. When they are no longer babies or are difficult to care for is when all of those who don't do their research expect someone else to come to their rescue!

*ETA*
fixed the massive amount of typo's

I'm afraid this is a familiar story. Responsible people research before they acquire animals but sadly, the world is full of irresponsible people. These same folk fail to care adequately for their children in extreme cases so I suppose it isn't surprising that they pay little attention to chickens etc. You are clearly concerned about the chickens they keep and that does you great credit. I don't know what you can do, as they are family friends, other than offer to help design and build a suitable coop with them. This does not however answer the question of good feeding and hygiene in the coop/run. Leaving any animal in a temperature of 100 degrees is positively cruel and I should think it is an offense, it certainly is here.

I consider chickens easy to raise even with a busy schedule. I spend about 10 minutes a day on my chickens average, just to change the water, shut the coop door/open it, feed them, collect eggs, throw some new pine shavings down... The only thing that takes time is building the coop and cleaning the coop. When I built my coop I made sure I did everything properly, and even with that, there's still many things I would go back and change and I even added onto it about a month after building it.

With dogs too, you got people there that annoy me too. They get herding dogs in an apartment and complain about the dog barking; the dog is supposed to bark!

Now, to turn things around again...

I've become familiar with the "wanting an animal without doing research" thing coming up a lot on the Cage Bird area here. There have been posts from people asking about where to get fertile eggs to hatch their own parrots/finches/softbills/etc because the birds are too expensive to buy as weaned babies or adults. "Oh, I've hatched chickens and ducks and guineafowl...so now I want to try using my incubator to hatch some Palm Cockatoos. Does anyone know where I can get eggs shipped?"

A further clue that a person familiar with poultry thinks that will translate seamlessly into the world of parrots/finches/softbills -- referring to different parrots/finches/softbills as "breeds" rather than "species." Hint -- there are no "breeds" of parrot. This mentality is, I believe, at the root of the hybridization "controversy" among bird-keepers -- those who come from a poultry background think of them as "breeds" and so think "as long as it LOOKS like it should, so what if it had a hybrid ancestor?" while those from a conservation background recognize hybridization as forever tainting further descendents, even if they "look pure."

Or another one that comes up -- "What species of parrot/finch/softbill can I keep with my chickens in their enclosed run?" Beyond the likelihood of the chickens passing on some disease to the other birds, there's the completely different set of needs each group has. Generally, chickens can get by on much poorer hygiene, crowding and diet than most parrot/finch/softbill species, so sticking the latter in an enclosure designed for the former is an invitation for disease and death. On the other hand, an aviary properly designed and maintained for parrot/finch/softbill species would be a palace for a small number of chickens.

So, how is this controversial? Well, it seems that many people on this forum are convinced that country people are naturally more familiar with animal-keeping than city people are. That may be true if we're talking about livestock -- domesticated species selected over a few thousand years to be able to survive and reproduce on as little care as possible for the purpose of becoming or producing food for us. But take a an animal at most only a couple generations removed from the wild, with more demanding needs, that can't be housed outdoors year-round in most areas of the country, and the story changes. Country people know more about animals? Then why does this city-boy know that 1) doves can't be used to raise cockatiel babies, even though many chicken people seem to think they can; 2) breeders of Bali Mynahs (less than 2,000 world-wide population) are not likely to be found on BYC, a forum based on chicken-keeping; 3) basic Mendelian genetics as learned in high school biology can answer virtually all the "what will I get?" questions about offspring from various crosses on the peafowl forum, but even the stickies post on genetics there doesn't get it all right; 4) you're not going to find a breeder of Palm Cockatoos or other parrots who will sell you a fertile egg to hatch your own baby so you can save a few bucks; 5) even if you DO find parrot eggs to incubate, raising the babies is a whole different ball game from raising baby chickens, ducks, guineas, etc. There is virtually nothing to be gained from raising chickens that can be used toward hand-feeding a day-1 baby cockatiel.

So, as I said before, being a country person doesn't make you better than a city person -- and vice versa.

Hi @Rosa moschata , I don't have an opinion on this sorry but maybe I can start this thread back up.