Need Help with Fly Strike-WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURES-NECropsy added

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Here's some valid information:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm013

Disease and Eggshell Quality:

Not all diseases which affect chickens cause a decline in eggshell quality. However, egg production will usually decline. An example of a disease that can affect the numbers of eggs and not necessarily the quality is infectious laryngotracheitis. Other common viral diseases such as egg drop syndrome (EDS), avian influenza (AI), Newcastle disease (ND) and infectious bronchitis (IB) may produce severe effects on eggshell and internal quality. Many times the total number of eggs is not influenced even though the egg records indicate a drop in total collectable eggs. This is due to the increase in non-collectable eggs (shell-less or ultra-thin shells) that are lost under the cages. This is a common occurrence with EDS.

It has been established that the EDS virus affects only the shell gland but with ND and IB every portion of the reproductive tract can be affected. If one disease had to be singled out as being the one responsible for the majority of the economically significant production losses in egg layers it would have to be Infectious bronchitis. Infectious bronchitis virus, a coronavirus, has a preference for the mucus membranes of the respiratory and reproductive tracts. The kidney is also affected by certain IB virus strains. Not only is eggshell quality affected but internal quality also declines. Watery whites are very common and can persist for long periods after egg production returns. Also, an IB outbreak can result in a pale colored shell in brown shell.
 
And, then again, a faded shell color can have nothing to do with IB, or any disease, at all. That is actually completely normal for shell color to fade as the laying season wears on. And thin shells are not unusual in hot summers when water needs are high, either.

I just don't want people to automatically think that every egg issue is due to some catastrophic disease, Michael. It reminds of of people going to the worst case scenario when a bird limps. I see them all the time going overboard here, screaming Marek's when a bird sprains its leg jumping off the porch. Or, worse yet, someone told me that Isaac's sons had Marek's or scaly leg mites because they high stepped. Isaac walks like that because he's always walked like that and some of his sons do the same way. He's never had mites in his life, leg or otherwise. Not to mention, the poor old guy has arthritis in his right hock joint so now, it's amplified. So, though some egg issues may be precipitated by disease, many of them are something far less sinister. None of mine have had IB or MG/MS and I've had some with chronic egg problems with a few, just certain specific hens, mostly older ones.
 
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speckledhen said:
And, then again, a faded shell color can have nothing to do with IB, or any disease, at all. That is actually completely normal for shell color to fade as the laying season wears on. And thin shells are not unusual in hot summers when water needs are high, either.

I just don't want people to automatically think that every egg issue is due to some catastrophic disease, Michael. It reminds of of people going to the worst case scenario when a bird limps. I see them all the time going overboard here, screaming Marek's when a bird sprains its leg jumping off the porch. Or, worse yet, someone told me that Isaac's sons had Marek's or scaly leg mites because they high stepped.
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Hahaha. I know what you mean. Karen knows better though, as do I. The worst predicament is a viral problem after all other possibilities are attempted to be remedied. That is why I recommend birds for necropsy if it is an ongoing problem depending on circumstances. I have 2 in a current flock under 2 years of age who were dropping soft shelled eggs. I have them number banded so I know which ones they are, and paying close attention, which isn't easy to do when there are numerous birds to a flock. So I supplement with calcium citrate or gluconate in addition to a good amount of D3 in water, and it seems to help. I feed a high quality ration, but like you said, some birds just have absorption difficulty due to physiology or lesser quality diet. This is also why I have stressed that cocci immunity is important, as well as preventing overabundance of intestinal parasites, bacteria in the early stages since the birds' future health resides with a healthy, undamaged intestinal tract; the foundation of the immune system.
 
Michael Apple said:
Hahaha. I know what you mean. Karen knows better though, as do I. The worst predicament is a viral problem after all other possibilities are attempted to be remedied. That is why I recommend birds for necropsy if it is an ongoing problem depending on circumstances. I have 2 in a current flock under 2 years of age who were dropping soft shelled eggs. I have them number banded so I know which ones they are, and paying close attention, which isn't easy to do when there are numerous birds to a flock. So I supplement with calcium citrate or gluconate in addition to a good amount of D3 in water, and it seems to help. I feed a high quality ration, but like you said, some birds just have absorption difficulty due to physiology or lesser quality diet. This is also why I have stressed that cocci immunity is important, as well as preventing overabundance of intestinal parasites, bacteria in the early stages since the birds' future health resides with a healthy, undamaged intestinal tract; the foundation of the immune system.
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Gosh, I don't know if you remember my blue Ameraucana hen, Nora, who died this year at 6 1/2 years old. She laid good eggs her first two or three years, but then, she started with the paper thin ones that would break in the nests. She'd eat calcium and I'd give them vitamins and still, terrible shell quality. Then she quit laying for well over a year and suddenly, started back. Shells were much better, though never as tough as they should have been. Never really knew what her issue was, but it was definitely something about the way her body processed calcium.
 
speckledhen said:
Gosh, I don't know if you remember my blue Ameraucana hen, Nora, who died this year at 6 1/2 years old. She laid good eggs her first two or three years, but then, she started with the paper thin ones that would break in the nests. She'd eat calcium and I'd give them vitamins and still, terrible shell quality. Then she quit laying for well over a year and suddenly, started back. Shells were much better, though never as tough as they should have been. Never really knew what her issue was, but it was definitely something about the way her body processed calcium.
Click to expand...

I don't remember your Ameraucana. I've seen that with a handful of birds over the last decade in regard to egg quality. I know fatty liver disease can cause lots of digestion/absorption problems which could certainly effect egg quality, and it is rarely mentioned on the forum. Birds not eating during moult, lacking certain vitamins, overweight, or inactive can be prone to this. This is also why I believe supplementing water often is very important all year round, and generally 3 days a week in addition to a well balanced feed ration. I rarely give what many refer to as "treats". I must have some success since I have some birds that are now 10 years of age. Some pigeon supply houses carry good blood building/liver detox supplements that I use at times. Lewerstim by Medpet is a liver cleansing formula I've been using this last year. It contains thioctic acid, B vitamins, calcium pantothenate, etc. I use it once per week in water during those few months of moult. There are many more supplements, some good, some not so good, but the pigeon fanciers definitely take on the task of keeping their birds healthy. I've run into people who never supplement, let their birds range anywhere all day, and when they die at 3-5 years of age, they just buy more. I don't waste time with them on this type of discussion. I prefer to find solutions to problems even though it may be difficult at times.
 
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I think that if people are going to offer advice or try to help someone figure out what they have, those advice givers have a responsibility not to blurt out some ailment, but ask questions and suggest a necropsy, and since we are lay people, be careful not to scare some poor soul with a sick chicken. Unless it's coccidiosis. That 's one with an ASAP!
 
Michael Apple said:
I don't remember your Ameraucana. I've seen that with a handful of birds over the last decade in regard to egg quality. I know fatty liver disease can cause lots of digestion/absorption problems which could certainly effect egg quality, and it is rarely mentioned on the forum. Birds not eating during moult, lacking certain vitamins, overweight, or inactive can be prone to this. This is also why I believe supplementing water often is very important all year round, and generally 3 days a week in addition to a well balanced feed ration. I rarely give what many refer to as "treats". I must have some success since I have some birds that are now 10 years of age. Some pigeon supply houses carry good blood building/liver detox supplements that I use at times. Lewerstim by Medpet is a liver cleansing formula I've been using this last year. It contains thioctic acid, B vitamins, calcium pantothenate, etc. I use it once per week in water during those few months of moult. There are many more supplements, some good, some not so good, but the pigeon fanciers definitely take on the task of keeping their birds healthy. I've run into people who never supplement, let their birds range anywhere all day, and when they die at 3-5 years of age, they just buy more. I don't waste time with them on this type of discussion. I prefer to find solutions to problems even though it may be difficult at times.
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I have used Avia Charge 2000 plus flax seed for mine at different times. I don't know what "treats" are, never really understood the concept for chickens, unless it's when they want to eat some of what I have, LOL. I give them good feed and supplement them with extra protein or something I can put vitamins and minced garlic, etc, in for their health.

I haven't had my own chickens for ten years yet so of course, I don't have any who are ten yet. My hatchery hens all had laying malfunctions, except maybe one, so they all died before they were 7 years old. I have one hatchery hen from the following year who will turn 8 in January. I hope some of the ones I have will live to be ten or more.

seminolewind said:
I remember Nora- I asked you if you wanted to sell her, LOL!
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You and a few other folks, LOL! I still have her splash sister, Snow. Hope she and Gypsy will live a few more years. They are great hens, still lay in short spurts.
 
seminolewind said:
I think that if people are going to offer advice or try to help someone figure out what they have, those advice givers have a responsibility not to blurt out some ailment, but ask questions and suggest a necropsy, and since we are lay people, be careful not to scare some poor soul with a sick chicken. Unless it's coccidiosis. That 's one with an ASAP!
Click to expand...
We see that constantly, don't we? "Your chicken probably has X, but I'm just a newbie myself, don't even have my chickens yet."
roll.png
 

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