Red Leakage on Blue Splash -- Correctable?

Wappoke said:

He appears to be a black tailed white. It would carry the columbian gene or the dark brown gene and sex-linked silver. There is no white edging on the few tail feathers so I favor the columbian gene as being the restrictor. The E locus allele could be brown, wheaten or wild type. The red in the shoulders, etc. is from autosomal red. He has yellow skin so he carries two recessive yellow skin genes, He also carries sex-linked dermal melanin inhibitor. Looks like a pea comb so he is carrying two pea comb allelles at the p comb locus and recessive alleles at the rose and duplex comb loci. There are other genes he carries; I mentioned what I believe are the most important.

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Thank you for dissecting him for me, lol... I just got the Van Dort Chicken Colours book for Christmas. along with a copy of the SOP..... reading Van Dort last night, I decided on the autosomal red, but I couldn't figure out the black tail feathers.

If he were yours, what color variety would you breed him with to clean up some of this color mess?

There are only 5 "approved" colors for Araucana, and 4 of them require willow legs. Should this guy also have willow legs? Is that linked to his skin color?

I believe these are his parents:

First, I am not a breeder of Araucana birds, to be sure. With that on the table...

However, there are traits that even I can see that show that the young cockerel is not a pure bred, standard bred Araucana. His legs are BRIGHT yellow, not willow. His beak is also bright yellow when it should be horn, a very dark burnt tone. He has tail feathers he shouldn't have and if you take a good close look under those feathers you will likely find a rudimentary tail when the standard calls for him to be "entirely absent with no uropygium and covered with saddle feathers" not the tail feathers seen. Any tail, however rudimentary, is also a DQ.

The comb is hard to see in the photo but anything other than a pea comb is a DQ as well. I won't get into his coloration.

So, if you just wish to make chickens, he'll do just as well and any other male, as far as that goes. But if you are interested in breeding true-bred Araucanas, for breed preservation, sale of true bred Araucana chicks/eggs or for exhibition purposes, you might want to consider locating better stock for your start?

Best wishes for your breeding future.

Actually, he did come from a breeder that only raises Araucana. I think some of his traits (the tail feathers) are a throw back to the tailed side of the family. The breeder has both Collonca and Quechua birds, I believe.....

Yes, I realize the breeder didn't keep his colors separate, and I'm starting with rough stock, but they were all I could find.... I'm not showing anything, far from it, actually, everything I own would be DQ for one reason or another.

I have some better chicks coming in the spring, from breeders who keep approved color varieties, etc..... I spent so much money this fall, on hatching eggs that didn't hatch, I could kick myself for that....

I was hoping to use this guy to start some red pyles, but I think he's too messed up, really. I couldn't decide if he was more blue with red leakage, or something else, so I thought I'd post and see if somebody could help....

I have 5 chicks from another breeder, but again, the colors are not approved varieties. It seems to me that few Araucana breeders keep their colors separate. However, I think these other chicks will be easier to pair up in a breeding program! I'll keep this guy and maybe test breed him to see what he produces.

Welcome to the world of shady poultry sales. Sheeesh.

These struggles are not limited to the breed your have chosen. 80% of the sellers of birds on Ebay, Craigs, and everywhere else, are largely pawning off birds AS this or that, but are not. There's money to be had, so it's a a buyer beware situation.

Best advice? Buy only young birds. That's #1. Buy birds you can SEE. Then, you can make all the eggs you wish. Buying eggs is not the way to go, although folks still go for that "short cut" which seldom if ever works out well. Buy only from real BREEDERS. 90% of the those who sell eggs/chicks etc, are merely propagators, not breeders. Add to that picture what you stated. Rarer breeds and varieties make the huckster buying and selling even worse.

Buy only from someone with a known, public, proven reputation. How does one discern this? By checking with the breed club or clubs associated with the breed. They know the real folks, believe me. They know who has exhibited their birds and thus submitted them to peer judgement, critique and independent judging review. Showing isn't about the ribbons and plastic trophies except for those handful of people who might be called "point chasers". True breeders show for peer review and to show their handiwork to the world and take the criticism from their fellow breeders and kudos, whichever the case may be.

Anyhow. Good luck with your endeavors. A lot of folks start with the frustrating, stumbling beginning as you, but with knowledge learned go on to become important breeders and advance their breed to even greater heights.

LOL! Thank you... yes, I jumped right in the trap with both feet! .... I wish I could buy birds I could see first, but I looked around here for several years and never saw any. That's what prompted me to start googling around.... Well, maybe one day I'll be the first in my area with a nice flock of Araucana chicks to sell

n8ivetxn said:

Actually, he did come from a breeder that only raises Araucana. I think some of his traits (the tail feathers) are a throw back to the tailed side of the family. The breeder has both Collonca and Quechua birds, I believe.....

Yes, I realize the breeder didn't keep his colors separate, and I'm starting with rough stock, but they were all I could find.... I'm not showing anything, far from it, actually, everything I own would be DQ for one reason or another.

I have some better chicks coming in the spring, from breeders who keep approved color varieties, etc..... I spent so much money this fall, on hatching eggs that didn't hatch, I could kick myself for that....

I was hoping to use this guy to start some red pyles, but I think he's too messed up, really. I couldn't decide if he was more blue with red leakage, or something else, so I thought I'd post and see if somebody could help....

I have 5 chicks from another breeder, but again, the colors are not approved varieties. It seems to me that few Araucana breeders keep their colors separate. However, I think these other chicks will be easier to pair up in a breeding program! I'll keep this guy and maybe test breed him to see what he produces.

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The rumpless trait is caused by a dominant gene. There are recessive genes that can modify the vertebrae in the pygostyle producing a bird like yours. If your bird is a hybrid between a tailed breed and an araucana, I would expect such results. He only carries one dominant gene for rumpless and a recessive modifier.

Do you have a black or a white female araucana? These are the varieties that you could produce using the male.

Willow legs are due to a chicken having yellow skin and a gene called sex-linked dermal melanin. Any female offspring he produces will not have willow legs. The males he produces will carry one sex-linked dermal melanine and they (his male offspring) can produce some females with willow legs.

The male you have would be fine for producing white females if you cross him with a bird with willow legs. The fact that his legs are yellow would indicate he is descended from a white variety. The female in your picture appears to be dominant white. It would be best to produce whites that carry recessive white. If you want to produce red pyle- you will cross a dominant white bird with a black breasted red bird producing white F1. Then backcross the F1 to a black breasted red. Which varieties are male or female ( birds used as original parents) depends on the standard shank color of the red pyle variety and the shank color of the parents.

The chabo is a black tailed white variety and the researchers that analyzed its genetic makeup concluded that it carries a gene similar to dominant white. It is possible that your bird is black tailed white because of this gene. He could carry the gene that acts like dominant white. The female in your post apperas to be dominant white.

If you test cross the male with a black female (any black will do) and he produces white offspring he is dominant white.

He could have picked up the autosomal red from a golden duckwing somewhere in his lineage.

What you do next depends on the genetic makeup of the birds you have.

One last thing, there is a recessive rumplessness that is found in commercial white leghorns. I do not believe this is the case with your bird. But anything is possible. Recessive rumplessness is also effected by modifiers. Many chicken breeds carry recessive modifiers that tend to cause the normal expression of the rump. A bird can carry genes that normally express the rumpless condition and also enough modifiers to cause the bird to have a complete tail or some intermediate expression of a tail.

If you post pictures of the birds you have to use for breeding, then I can give you more information. Print out this string or keep track of this string ( remember the address) so I can refer back to this string. It will help me if you post pictures.

Send me a pm if you post.

Awesome, yes I will keep track of this thread! And I'll probably print it out too just to carry around and think about....since I'm new to genetics.

These are my 5 chicks, from a breeder in CO. I believe he had 2 roosters in with his hens, one was a red pyle and (based on his description) the other was either a Gold Duckwing, or more likely a BBR type. I posted these pics last night to get help identifying the sex of my chicks....

1. Blue pullet, little or no lacing, willow leg



2. Blue Gold pullet (center), she does have some lacing, some willow color in the legs






3. Splash/Paint cockerel (?) - I was hoping this was a pullet....



4. Black Red cockerel



5. Blue Red cockerel, tufted




And, my 3 young adult cockerels from a breeder in CA. The guy in the back has willow legs, but he's clean faced



I have two BBR pullets, from a reputable shower, coming to me in the spring. Along with 3 straight run chicks from her.....
Tell me what else I need to get and I'll try to get them! - I'll work on getting a black and a white. I have a new contact about 2 hours from me, she has good birds, maybe she has some to part with....

Thanks again for breaking it down for me, it would be a long, hard road by myself! LOL...