Feeding the "Old fashioned way"

John Scott said:

If you belive this, you need to do more reserch.  Dairy and Beef catlle HAVE to use hormons due to the high demand for their products.

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I'm sorry, I disagree. We don't use hormones on our cattle. At all. Ever. Very high demand for organic beef

John Scott said:

If you belive this, you need to do more reserch. Dairy and Beef catlle HAVE to use hormons due to the high demand for their products.

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Respectfully disagree, but I assume an old farm boy like myself cannot be as intelligent or up to date as you, They do not have to use hormones the "farmer" elects to use them. If they did not use Hormones. more cattle each producing a little less milk would make up for the difference in total gallons of milk produced.

Agreed! Greed alone causes the use of agents for accelerated livestock husbandry.

Beekissed said:

Agreed! Greed alone causes the use of agents for accelerated livestock husbandry.

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You are so correct. When I grew up on a dairy farm in the 50s. We milked twice a day. Now dairy farms milk 3-4 times a day to get more milk out of each cow. Hormones even increase that amount.
10 cows@ 10 gallons each is 100 galons or 4 cows @25 gallons each is 100 gallons. People chose the latter for greedy reasons.

Same as egg production, add light, more eggs, add hormones, more eggs. Not that it is good for the chicken or people, It is just the way it is.

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duluthralphie said:

Do not disagree with anything you said. However, the statement "Others in this thread have mentioned that 200 years ago, chickens weren't nearly as productive as they have been since."


While true, it implies something that is not strictly true.

Productivity of eggs began to really take off in the 1930's which is about the same time as the REA and electricity began to hit rural areas. I maintain it was the addition of a light bulb to the chicken coop as much or mare than any other event that increased production. If I want to increase my egg production, I need simply turn on a light 8 months of the year. Regardless of what I feed them I will get more eggs.

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That is analogous to saying "I can raise vegetables with nothing more than good sunlight". Anyone that has raised crops or gardened the same land year after year will tell you that fertility needs to be replenished with manure, compost or chemical fertilizer.
I've raised livestock and exotics most of my life. If I don't feed them properly, they won't be productive or thrive. You don't have to believe me. The next time you go to a poultry show or county fair, find an old poultryman and ask them if they get good production from feeding only scratch. They may humor you and explain what is needed in regards to nutrition for good production and flock health - or they may just laugh.

You may get more egg with more light, but that will only be until their stores of vitamins, macro/micro minerals and amino acids are depleted.- AND only after their annual molt.
A chicken requires proper levels of fat, energy, proteins, vitamins and minerals. Light won't replace those.
Deficiencies of water soluble vitamins show up quickly. That would be B complex.
Birds with a B-12 deficiency have reduced weight gain and feed intake, along with poor feathering and nervous disorders.
Choline deficiency presents in slow growth and twisted hocks.
Niacin deficiency slows growth and causes skin and digestive disorders.
The liver becomes atrophied with a pantothenic deficiency.
In hens, signs of riboflavin deficiency are decreased egg production, increased embryonic mortality, and an increase in size and fat content of the liver.
A folic acid deficiency results in a macrocytic anemia and leukopenia. Poultry are much more susceptible than other livestock.
Biotin deficiency results in dermatitis of all exposed skin.

Fat soluble vitamin deficiency won't show up for several months since they may be stored a while. However if they were never supplied sufficiently in the diet, it won't matter.
With a vitamin A deficiency, birds become emaciated and weak with ruffled feathers. Egg production drops and hatchability decreases.
Low levels of vitamin D prevents proper absorption of calcium and phosphorus. Shell weight drops by 150 mg/day till eventually egg production stops. It also causes stunted growth and leg weakness in growing birds.
Muscular dystrophy occurs in chicks without sufficient vitamin E.

Any vitamin deficiency will cause dramatic effects on hatchability.

Adding light after the fall equinox can stimulate the pineal gland and thereby egg production if they've recovered from molt. That won't help without proper nutrition.
Chickens closer to the equator don't experience a difference in day length. They still molt and still need good nutrition to be productive the rest of the year.
You can't make eggs without the raw materials.

Light alone doesn't make tomatoes or eggs.

And, by the way, hormones have never been used in egg production since the 1940s. There isn't a lab in the world producing a hormone for increased egg production.
Good egg production has come from genetic selection and proper nutrition.

shortgrass said:

I'm sorry, I disagree. We don't use hormones on our cattle. At all. Ever. Very high demand for organic beef

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Agreed. Cattle have been raised for meat and milk for tens of thousands of years. No hormones needed. We barely dabbled in milk production but a friend had a 200 cow milk farm. We raised beef. Never a hormone in either herd. No need. They eat, they grow, they breed, they produce milk. In fact, our farm was exclusively a grass fed operation.

I add pigeon food to my feed. The higher quality pigeon feed is 16 per cent protein. My husband used to feed straight pigeon feed with oyster shell on the side. The chickens did well, laid eggs, raised their chicks, and not all that many were let to free range.he always had at least 50 birds most of the time. Now, he is gone, and For now, I only have 5 hen's and 1 rooster. I have 5 more hen's coming in a few weeks. In the morning I feed that Scratch and Peck feed. In the evening they get pigeon food and a couple of handfuls of Scratch and Peck. They have gone through one of the easiest moults I have ever seen this year. Not long and drawn out. Works for me so far.

I also use a commercial layer mash, more during the winter. I will be going without lights this year to give the birds a chance to rest.

I am not saying nutrition is not important. I am saying there are alternative ways to get it. And YES I am saying artificial lights did increase egg production a lot.

I let my birds free range all winter, I do assist them in finding "food" with scratch mainly oats with a few other things added in.

Summer time I have feed in the coop. but they mainly free range and do great. But I am not trying to increase my profit margin or egg production, I have way more eggs than I need year round, and give some to friends and family. Even selling a dozen now and then.

duluthralphie said:

You are so correct. When I grew up on a dairy farm in the 50s. We milked twice a day. Now dairy farms milk 3-4 times a day to get more milk out of each cow. Hormones even increase that amount.
10 cows@ 10 gallons each is 100 galons or 4 cows @25 gallons each is 100 gallons. People chose the latter for greedy reasons.

Same as egg production, add light, more eggs, add hormones, more eggs. Not that it is good for the chicken or people, It is just the way it is.

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I understand the comparison you are trying to make, but your inferrence that we use hormones in egg production is false and misleading.

BEETS ARE YUMMY AND CALMING

I WAS LOOKING UP CATTLE FODDER, WHEN I STUMBLED ACROSS THIS...According to Card and Henderson (1933), feeding whole fodder beets to
poultry can prevent aggression and cannibalism among the flock.

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/animal/feed/ffc/documents/FodderBeets_FS053E.pdf

Very interesting. I give my chickens swiss chard every day. Maybe I'll change that.