Fluid in belly with egg floating

[Deltabwa]

I have a, barely over, 1 year old Buckeye that a few days ago I noticed she was waddling. After researching, I wasn't sure if what she had was Ascites, but didn't expect her to live. I felt her belly and it was soft and gushy so I needed to wait for help before draining her. But she had an odor to her. The next night when I put them to bed, I found 2 eggs under a pullet that was in bed already. When I moved her and the eggs, both eggs smelled so I wondered if that egg came from the hen. Her tail has always stayed up and her comb in bright red as always but she likes to sit in the nestbox and when she does come out, she doesn't like to leave the run to free range. Yesterday when i left to go to a wedding, I felt her and felt an egg mixed in the fluid so I separated her to see if her egg was the one with the odor as well as separating her because I had planned to drain her today. She never passed it. Again this morning she still never passed it so I brought her in. She still smells so I figured it was some kind of infection in that fluid. I soaked her, gave her some rolaids and pulled 2 syringes of clear fluid out. I checked her vent and 2" in, there is only poop. And the egg seems to almost be free standing in the fluid, hanging low, which It's not, I know, but I thought if I drained her then it would let her pass it. So far, it's not. I have more commitments today so it won't be until almost supper before I can get back to her again. I'm just wondering what else I should do, she is also breathing heavy, I imagine because of the fluid, but I don't want her to go into shock so I didn't take more fluid out.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi
It sounds like your girl may be laying internally which is a common cause of ascites. This is where egg (yolks) released from the ovary fail to travel into the oviduct and instead fall into the bottom of the abdominal cavity. Once in there, it is not really possible for them to come out again and usually once it has happened the first time, it continues on a daily basis as if the hen was still laying.... so they have bright red combs and look like they should be laying but the eggs drop into the abdomen instead of travelling down the oviduct and popping out of the vent. Over time the yolks build up and fluid leaches out of them and the yolks solidify and sometimes become infected. As you are seeing, the build up of fluid puts pressure on the hens "hips" forcing the legs wider apart and also the heart and lungs struggle to function under the compression. Draining the fluid off will usually give the hen some immediate relief but they will usually deteriorate and whilst redraining at regular intervals can help, ultimately those egg yolks inside her will go bad and she will die or her heart/lungs will give out. Some people are having success with hormonal implants like Superlorin, but these need to be administered by a vet every 3-6 months and obviously that is costly.

I would doubt that the eggs that smelled strange had been laid by your sick girl but she had maybe been lying on them prior to the pullet that you found in the nest box and the smell transferred to them. Usually with Ascites they will have a poopy vent because the abdominal swelling bulges the flesh below the vent and poop is no longer able to fall clear, so the feathers start to get caked. Also, the build up of eggs inside the abdomen starts to restrict the flow of waste through the lower digestive tract and poop becomes more liquid than solid as the solids get stopped back.
It is possible that she is already battling an infection..... what colour was the fluid you drained out. It is important to be very careful about sterilising everything before you drain fluid as it is all to easy to introduce an infection into the abdomen, especially with all that egg yolk matter in there.

The smell could also be due to sour crop. The backing up of the digestive tract from this reproductive issue can lead to the crop not emptying properly and the contents starting to grow a yeast infection.

Unfortunately, if she is internally laying then without a hormonal implant her days are numbered, although if she is due to moult soon, her reproductive system will shut down for winter and the problem should ease a bit, until she starts laying again.

I wish you luck with her, but you may need to make some difficult decisions soon.

If there is anything you don't understand about what I have written, please ask and I will try to explain better.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[Deltabwa]

Thanks for your long response. I appreciate that. As for your questions. After I saw the swelling in her belly originally, I did actually see her immediately following her laying an egg. She was in the nest box and I saw it come out. That's why I didn't think it was ascites. Also, there is no poopy feathers. In fact, since I put her in the cage this morning, after writing this post, I just got back home and her cage is full of poop. I wouldn't call it watery, tho some of it is because she was still dripping fluid from the drain. but it was still in a pile, of sorts. I also watched her poop a few times and fell clear of all feathers, she dropped her butt like usual. Her tail end seems to be in a constant state of "hanging" Does that make sense? Her tail feathers are high but between her tail feathers and the feathers below her vent, there is some space there.

I thought i mentioned, the fluid was clear. Clear as in, it looked like water. I expected some infection in there so was surprised it was clear. And yup, I'm aware of sanitizing, we live on a cattle ranch with cattle, sheep, horses, cats, pigs and of course, chickens so alcohol is my friend.

The smell is also coming from her back end. Not the front. And smells like and infection or almost even rot.

I did expect to have to make the difficult decision, that was my plan yesterday, until I felt the egg, then I wanted to get the egg out.

She is eating and drinking, no problems, but has been standing, from what I'm told, pretty much all day. If she is internally laying, would there be a hard egg? What I feel is definitely a hard egg. So I wondered if the fluid was pulling down on the oviduct. Like I said, I can't feel the egg when I go in thru her vent, but I can definitely feel it if I squeeze (lightly) from the bottom, but it's at the top of the bottom. lol make sense

ETA: I want to clarify, she does NOT stand like a penguin, she looks more like a toddler in a very full diaper.

 

[rebrascora]

I do get what you are saying about feeling an egg but I'm really not sure you should be able to by palpitating her abdomen if it is in her oviduct, so I am wondering if it is a tumour. Since you saw her lay an egg recently then it doesn't seem to be internal laying.
I know it is a bit morbid and I certainly don't wish her ill, but if she dies, do you feel able to open her up and take some photos of her internal organs and post them here, so that we can learn from her?
In the mean time a vet should be able to test a faecal sample for bacterial overgrowth and guide you on which antibiotic is appropriate, but if veterinary care is not an option, make her as comfortable as you can and be prepared to end it if she starts to go downhill.

 

[Deltabwa]

ok thanks. Yes, I am very comfortable with that. In fact, do it with every animal we own, that dies, so the kids, and myself, can learn things. We have learned fascinating things about lambs.

We tried to drain her again a little while ago, after soaking her, and the "egg" doesn't feel as big as it did earlier. So, even before reading your response, I wondered if in fact, it is a tumor or something. She has stood all day, making small squeak sounds on occasion and I am thinking I will need to put her down, sooner than later. I'll leave her in tonight, to finish drying off and put her out tomorrow. If I find her still spending the day in the coop or run, and not going out with the rest of them, I think that is what I will do.

Oh, and for the record, she feels squishy and has a big belly but we didn't get anything out. I don't think he poked low enough but since it was causing her more pain than we were getting, I told him to leave it.

I will post pics after. Thanks for your help and I did read that clear fluid was not a good thing. She's just so young I was not expecting it. A year old Sept 18

 

[rebrascora]

It is sad, that she has developed such a serious problem so young. It sounds like you have a good plan and will keep my fingers crossed that she makes some sort of miraculous recovery in the mean time. There is a thread where we share photos and discuss diagnosis from our DIY necropsies. If you do manage to open her up, perhaps that would be a good place to post any photos you take. I will include a link to it when I can find it.... but I hope it doesn't come to that.

Here we go......
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-contains-xxx-graphic-necropsy-photos.823961/

 

[Deltabwa]

Well, I finally put her down today. I began to feel a 2nd "egg" and finally had some time. I video'ed it but waiting for it to upload. I do have a couple of pics. I'll post those here and then the video in the other thread listed here. I didn't cut everything out or open but showed the basic area. I still have her tho if you want me to cut things open, but you'll have to let me know quick lol

 

[Deltabwa]

 

[rebrascora]

So sorry to hear that she needed to be euthanized, but absolutely the right decision when you see that mess inside her, poor girl! I responded to your post on the Necropsy thread, but for others just reading this thread, the verdict is Salpingitis.... an infection of the oviduct.

Just as an aside, I would be a little concerned about the amount of yellow fatty deposits around her organs.... you can see her gizzard is encased in it and some of her intestines have deposits spotted on them (second photo.... makes them look like some sort of exotic snake!). It might be worth reassessing your feeding regime (and in particular the amount of scratch/treats they get) as excessive fatty deposits can lead to health issues.....just for the benefit of your remaining flock.... clearly this girl is beyond dietary help.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[Trish1974]

@rebrascora Is salpingitis the same as egg yolk peritonitis? Also, what are the two solid masses in the third and fifth pictures? Thank you