11-month old puppy is still biting!!!!!! Help!!!

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by SweetJoy7, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. SweetJoy7

    SweetJoy7 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hello. Our 11 month old newfoundland, Tulip, is biting us and is very mouthy!! We were thinking of getting bitter apple spray. I read somewhere that you can get a choke collar and give it a tug every time she nips you. Would this work? If you touch her, she just gets even more wound up. Please help! Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!!!!
     
  2. cassie

    cassie Overrun With Chickens

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    I would make her sit until she calms down when she does that. I used to raise Komondors. They would go through a stage where they were mouthy. They would take our hands in their mouths and just hold it or maybe take us by the hand to lead us somewhere. They would grow out of this behavior in a few weeks.
     
  3. SweetJoy7

    SweetJoy7 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thank you! When we have her sit, she sometimes just jumps up on us with her mouth open. Thank you for the advice.
     
  4. Boulla

    Boulla Chillin' With My Peeps

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    this method works great

    1) engage play
    2) when nips say ouch loudly in a high pitched voice
    3) say no bad girl in a firm voice
    4) ignore her and walk away don't make eye contact
    5) say on it
    May take a few weeks, worked for me
    Teaches them it hurts, its bad to do, and will want to keep playing with you so won't want to make you leave
    Good Luck
     
  5. VegasDobermanns

    VegasDobermanns Just Hatched

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    I'm a professional dog trainer and have trained in many disciplines including tracking, scenting, protection, precise obedience, etc. I've trained with the police and the military, too. I don't care the size of the dog - an 11 month old dog that is biting is crossing the boundaries. Tulip is showing you that she wants to be boss. She is testing her boundaries. You MUST take charge and be the boss.

    It can be cute when they are puppies and are mouthy. Just wait till they are 2 years old and are mouthy with your 2 year old child. It WON'T be cute then. The behaviours you allow and nurture now in puppies and young dogs, are the very behaviours that they will bring with them into adulthood. If it is okay now, they will not understand why all of a sudden one day when they are older, it is no longer okay.

    You should find someone locally to help you to break this behaviour or else spend some time reading and researching to learn for yourself how to be the boss in the dog's eyes. Please don't use the choke if you don't know what you are doing. Find a good, professional dog trainer. Someone who does not use clickers or electric collars. Someone who can train a dog without those distractions and crutches knows what you need to learn to take charge of Tulip.

    Sprays, collars, clickers and all that other stuff -- you won't always have them available to you and in your hands, but you will always have your attitude and your brain. It's your attitude and behaviours towards the dog that is going to make it mind you when you tell it to.

    While you are researching/trying to find a trainer, start now by giving Tulip tons of exercise. Tire her out every single day. Teach her to use a treadmill if you have one and can't keep up with her. Take her on walks and don't let her pull or be in front of you. This is all groundwork for you and an outlet she needs.

    Good luck to you! [​IMG]
     
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  6. VegasDobermanns

    VegasDobermanns Just Hatched

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    BTW, Newfoundlands are working water dogs with different dispositions and inclinations than herding dogs, such as the Komondors, and require different training methods. Herders will quite frequently exhibit nipping actions, as that is how they herd other animals. It's what makes them herders. A working water dog has no need or normal inclination towards nipping as a means of herding.

    Hope that makes sense!

    As a suggestion, you might want to contact the local rescue for Newfoundlands. Call them up and talk to them about what you are experiencing and see if they can suggest someone who knows about the breed who can help you train Tulip. Sometimes they can help, too.
     
  7. islandgirl82

    islandgirl82 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    x2 on her trying to be dominant and finding someone locally to work with you and avoiding training tools. You have to be confident if you expect her to mind you and not rely on gadgets. The basic commands of "Sit", "Down", and "Stay" are the foundation to build on. Be calm but firm when you give commands.

    I've raised Newfoundlands for years and have found them to be quite sensitive (more so than other breeds I've worked with) to voice commands, ie: the calmer your voice the more receptive they are to following commands. Is her biting habit, fear-based or is she possibly in pain? Are there are certain places on her body that if touched can trigger this reaction? Are there certain events that lead up to her biting or is it random? If you're unsure, start tracking what's happening right before she reacts like this. If games like tug-of-war have been part of your routine, STOP. That only encourages aggressive behaviors. Also, NEVER use your hands as toys. That will also encourage her to view you as a chew toy. Newfoundlands are very smart but can be incredibly stubborn. They're also very stoic and won't necessarily show signs of being in pain. I would suggest having a vet check done if you haven't already and getting her spayed (if she isn't already) will help balance her hormones.

    Newfoundlands were bred as an all-purpose working dog and they are happiest when they have a job. Some Newfies take to the water and other's never do so not all are fit for water work. Exercise is very important but be cautious about too much with a giant breed, especially while they're still growing and give her plenty of mental stimulation (take her places with new sights sounds and smells to experience, games where she'll have to find things. Encourage her to use her senses and that will give her positive outlets.

    Good luck and please keep us posted!
     
  8. Blooie

    Blooie Team Spina Bifida Premium Member

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    The posts from Island Girl and VegasDobermans are excellent! I, too, was a dog trainer for many years, not only training my own for conformation, obedience and hunting but also held classes at the local humane society and for 4H kids. I also did classes three nights a week - one night was my beginner's class, the next was my intermediate, and the third night we did my advanced classes. The only thing I would add to the superb advice you were given echoes something that both posters stated well - "props" may work for a time, but you aren't really training your dog, you're teaching yourself to REACT to your dog, avoiding the work of actual training, and that's a whole different ball game. You won't always have those things available when a behavior starts.

    My dogs were active, working retrievers besides being in the show and obedience ring and the last thing I needed was a hard mouthed dog from foolish discipline or an overly mouthy one from no discipline. They also had to tolerate a total stranger (the judges) opening their mouths and checking their bite and looking for missing teeth. My treatment for puppies when they would start to mouth my hand was to gently - and I stress gently - put my open hand in their mouths, say "no bite" and slowly move my hand, still in their mouths, toward their hindquarters. That naturally moved their heads backwards at the same time. I held this position until they turned their heads to get away from my hand and at that moment I said, "Release", removed my hand and praised them quietly. They learned that human tissue in their mouths was uncomfortable - not painful, but uncomfortable - and that it not only felt good when it was removed but they were praised for NOT having that hand in their mouths. I never had an issue with them after a few times of doing this, and it worked on every breed of dog I did it on, as long as my owners were consistent with it at home as well as during class time. Yet they also learned to tolerate very well the many times I'd sit with them and open their mouths, checking teeth, etc, because they knew that I was controlling the contact, not them. And with a dog bred for field work or water rescue work, it's a short, easy step to say, "release" when they have a bird or a boat bumper in their mouths as they have already learned what that word means. Your puppy is older so naturally it would take a few more times of this than it does a younger pup.

    I had two sayings in my dog classes. One was "something is either always ok or it's never okay." They don't know the difference between chewing on your old slippers and chewing on your new ones. Therefore it's best that they not chew on ANY slippers. Ask yourself if a puppy's obnoxious behavior is going to be as adorable when he's adult. You're already finding out that it isn't. If that behavior would be unacceptable then, it needs to be unacceptable starting from the day you bring him home. My experience with the Newfies I had in my class was that they were soft dogs - many of them would quit for the session if they were corrected too harshly. They simply didn't need it because a gentle correction was more effective. So it's much easier on both of you to set boundaries early and have every member of the family maintain those boundaries.

    The other was, "Once is tried, twice is learned, three times can be forever." This can work to your advantage when you are training dogs, but works to their advantage when they are training themselves. Self reward is a pretty strong motivator! They might know they're going to get into trouble for taking that roast off the counter again, but at that moment the instant reward for that self taught behavior is where their little doggie brain is, not on the consequences. So if they do something once and it works, they've tried it. If they do it again and it works again, they've learned it. If they go for it another time and it still works, they will almost always keep going back, even if you've altered the environment in such a way that they can't succeed again. Think about it this way.....if they can accidentally bump open a gate and then find themselves having a great romp in the neigborhood, they've tried it. If they go back to that gate and it again opens when they push on it, they've learned how to get that romp when the mood hits. From then on they will usually hit that gate without slowing down because it's embedded in them that it works every time. Now, if you change that gate so they can't get out, they will almost always go to that gate and test it every time they go outside just in case something has changed and they can romp some more. Tried, learned, forever.

    I hope you can find it in your heart to work with your dog consistently so that he learns his limits - nothing terrifies a visitor more than having a large dog bound up to them and grab their hands....they don't find it amusing. And kids are especially vulnerable. Too often, as I'm sure both Island Girl and VegasDobermans can attest, dogs were brought into obedience classes as a last resort rather than for a good start. And it's just one more step from "last resort" status to an ad in the paper saying, "Giveaway - large dog needs room to run." And that's such a shame.
     
  9. VegasDobermanns

    VegasDobermanns Just Hatched

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    I like Blooie's method of teaching the release. It's good. It's positive use of negative reinforcement. I teach the 'out' differently, as it is a release from an instructed bite on a sleeve or leg on the helper during training. Since they are biting an actual live human, the out must be instantaneous and actually spitting out of the bite. I proof it by giving them raw meat, 100 yards away, no collar on. Put the meat down, release the dog, when they pick it up to eat it, give the out command. They should, and do, immediately spit out the raw meat right then and there. If they do not, they are not ready or fully proofed yet. I've called my dobermanns and pit bull on a one word command before to come protect in real life, and their immediate group obedience to a single word given was enough to scare away the intruder. It was a beautiful thing to see.

    This is a great saying - "something is either always ok or it's never okay." That's exactly my point behind some cute puppy behaviours becoming problems when they grow up. They don't wake up the next day and automagically know that a behaviour is no longer allowed. They just don't understand that. I have said my own version of it for decades, and it always amazes me how many people never stop to think that until you tell them. Many people don't understand that dogs are always black and white. There is no grey. Grey is testing. Testing means you have an alpha or beta dog (which newbies never should), or you have not taught your dog you are alpha, or worse yet, both.

    The other 'pet peeve' is trying to explain to people that dogs don't understand long complicated sentences. Don't try to carry on a conversation with fido by telling him, "It's bed time. I want you to go over to your corner and lay down in your bed. Go on, do it now. What are you waiting for? Do I have to keep telling you?" Just tell the dog, "bed" one time.

    Actually, I guess I have lots of pet peeves about dog training that people do. I could write for hours and hours on end on the subject, but that would be off topic here. There has been lots of good advise offered up here. Hopefully SweetJoy7 can digest it all and put it to use. It's a good sign that she has taken the first step in fixing the situation.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. islandgirl82

    islandgirl82 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Wow, I've never heard of anyone using your method of training to release with something so tempting such as raw meat but what a great way to gauge how well they're doing with whatever one uses for a release command. I use "drop it" for release or "leave it" when I want my newf (or any other dog) to ignore something. I also say "Okay" when he can have something. He won't touch anything, even if it's food that's fallen into dog territory (ie: the floor) until I've said it. "Out" is what I say when we go outside.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you on it not mattering what size the dog is to have it well trained. Some may be tougher to train (though more often I find it's the owners who are tougher to teach) but they're all capable of learning.
     
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