11 Week old silkie- sour crop?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by PulletSurpriseWinner, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. PulletSurpriseWinner

    PulletSurpriseWinner Out Of The Brooder

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    Jun 27, 2011
    Hi, all:

    I live in New Hampshire. Our silkie Rachel has developed what seems to be a digestive problem. At the base of her neck, a "pouch" has developed that feels squashy. She allows me to touch it and it doesn't pain her.

    However, when I picked her up and held her on her side (our normal way of carrying her- it calms her), she turned her head downward and some cloudy fluid just ran out. There was quite a bit. It had no smell to it. I tried tipping her forward to kind of pour it out, but she began to panic- she was having no part of it. I tried turning her on her side again, but no more fluid came out. She just lay there quietly and let me pet her, as usual.

    She lives in an inside coop, lined with pine shavings. It is kept clean and dry. It's 9' tall with an 8'x 9' floor space. They get outside for exercise, grass, bugs, etc. daily as weather permits. We have a feeder and waterer suspended from the ceiling, and keep them clean and filled. They get a staple diet of chick grower which we buy from Blue Seal feeds. They get supplemental vegetables, meal worms and crickets (commercially raised) and some fruit. They receive supplemental chick grit daily, which they all eat. The other birds show no hint of this problem.

    Rachel still eats and drinks. She's actually a bit larger than her "sister" silkie. Other than the swelling on her chest, she seems normal in every way. Can anyone give me any idea what she may have? Is there a treatment?

    Thanks in advance,

    -PulletSurpriseWinner
     
  2. PulletSurpriseWinner

    PulletSurpriseWinner Out Of The Brooder

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    Jun 27, 2011
    After sifting through a mountain of available info- too much info- my wife and I guessed that she has sour crop. Hope we're right.... Anyway, we are treating her for sour crop. She's separated from the other birds and fasting for the prescribed 48 hours. We administered yogurt and olive oil this morning; got very little into her. When we induced vomiting, it wasn't like the stuff yesterday.... the smell of it would lift your hat. The pouch is definitely smaller now, and she's still pooping. We're hopeful that our diagnosis is correct and we caught it on time.

    I'll continue to post on our progress for the benefit of other members whose birds may be having similar troubles.

    P.S.W.
     
  3. ChobeeChickenMommy

    ChobeeChickenMommy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I hope you silkie gets better soon! I'm sorry to hear something is up with her, good luck & please update with her progress.
     
  4. PulletSurpriseWinner

    PulletSurpriseWinner Out Of The Brooder

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    Jun 27, 2011
    Quote:Rachel's all better now. We gave her yogurt mixed with olive oil, plus a little egg for flavor. She did NOT appreciate the "vomit treatment", but she's a good, docile girl and put up with it. Her crop seems to pretty much empty normally now. We check her daily and she actually enjoys her crop massages.
     
  5. hokankai

    hokankai Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Are you sure it wasn't just her normal crop? They protrude and look like a tumor on the left side (when you're looking at them) of their chest. It should be empty in the morning, squashy in the afternoon, and full to bursting point at night.
     
  6. TwoCrows

    TwoCrows Show me the way old friend... Staff Member

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    My Coop
    A sour crop is basically a yeast/fungal infection, also known as thrush. I am a little suspicious of a sour crop that got that better that fast. Right now I am dealing with an Australorp pullet that does have sour crop. She has been ill for 1 1/2 weeks. Yogurt, oil, vomiting, massages of the crop did very little for her and last Friday had to go to the vet for a crop flush and some Nystatin for the yeast infection. She is still suffering greatly however is slowly improving.

    It is possible that your silkies crop became what they call "slow moving" which is common in birds when the good bacteria gets off balance and causes the crop to slow the movement of foods. But I don't think her crop was sour. If it had become soured, her breath would smell putrid.

    But I AM very glad your baby is all better! Add some probiotics to their water for a week and then back off to once a week to keep those crops in good shape!! [​IMG]
     
  7. T-Amy

    T-Amy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a ~6 month old Campine hen that I think has sour crop. Her crop has always has seemed to be distended but pictures of 'normal' campines didn't seem that different from 'Cinderella.' Now it seems bigger .

    I've separated her from the flock to treat & observe (and keep away from the solid dry food) but she seems to 'miss' them & paces back & forth on her side of the screen when the others are on the other side of the screen; I've tried everything I've read on here: massaging the crop, veg & olive oil in a dropper, antibiotics (Tetracycline), yogurt, bread soaked in oil & water, and inducing vomiting by turning her upside down while massaging her crop to try & empty it (holding her head down as she seems to instinctively know food is supposed to go in not out). This has been going on several days now & the crop still seems to be large & squishy (don't feel any foreign objects or what appear to be blockages).

    Some folks mention yeast, some mention flushing (I don't know how to do that; fear of water going into her lungs & aspirating).

    She wants to eat in the AM regardless of what I give her (normally yogurt mixed with oil or a little bit of oil-soaked bread which I mix either with a small bit of tetracycline for the past 3 days).

    She's also not been laying eggs for a couple of months. So, my issues are these:
    1. We have no avian vet nearby to help so I'm solo on this; am I doing the right things & just need to keep doing it?
    2. When do I throw in the towel or realize she's not going to get through this.
    3. Should I withhold all food (which consists now of just bread or yogurt/oil) for a few days so the crop can heal? I've seen they can go 7 days without food but that seems crazy to me since they're only a couple # bird!
    4. How many times a day do I 'vomit' her (it's not as scary once I did it a couple of times; just be sure to tip her up so she can get air & not drown or suffocate)
    5. what should I ask that I don't know I should be asking?

    thanks! Amy
     
  8. TwoCrows

    TwoCrows Show me the way old friend... Staff Member

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    Quote:I am no expert, however I am dealing with the same thing, so I will tell you what I know and what the vet has told me....First off, is she pooping? If she is than there is not a blockage in the crop. A soft squishy crop is a soured crop and a very hard crop is generally an impacted crop. (It gets squishy because the yeast infection is letting off gases). However, back to the pooping, if she is pooping, then do not use the oil anymore. Oil helps dissolve blockages. Oil is very hard to digest and when the crop is beginning to sour or already is, oil is going to make things worse.

    Do not feed her anything with sugar, sucrose or anything that will make the yeast/fungus grow. Vomiting is good if you can get them to release what is in the crop, however my girl stopped letting it all come up after a while. Make sure to lean her forward, not backwards so she won't drown. Only hold her forward a short time when the stuff is coming up so she won't breath it into her lungs.

    Yogurt and probiotics are extremely important with a sour crop. These things feed on yeast and fungal cells and will help combat the growth. If she stops drinking you can syringe water with probiotics down her throat.

    Feed her only things that do not require the use of her gizzard. So that means no seeds or things that are not water soluble. Stick to soft foods like eggs, yogurt, no yeast breads, (use tortillas) saltine crackers, even her own food wet down to make mash. Things like these. What ever she will eat, as she may stop eating at some point. My girl stopped eating and drinking.

    Now, many times these things are not enough to cure this infection and normally it will not go away on it's own without medication. My vet gave my girl some Nystatin and she was on this for 6 days. (She is still ill by the way and it has been 2 weeks, although I THINK she maybe getting better.)

    So on this note, and this may seem like I am telling you to inject her with poison, but since you have no vet and she needs yeast/fungal medicine, you can use vaginal cream down her throat. Yes, vaginal cream. A sour crop is the exact thing women get and even my vet approved this for alternative medicines. Go to the store and a get Gyne-lotrimin, or something with the ingredient in this...Clotrimazole 1% or 2%. Give her 1cc twice a day with a syringe. Don't worry, the vet says this is ok and my vet says I staved off many of the ulcers they get in their mouths and throats by using it.

    Next, you need to her warm at night. Unless you live in an area that stays above 75 degrees at night, then she needs a heat lamp. My vet told me not to let the temp drop below 75 degrees at night. And I do know for a fact, if my girl gets cold, in the morning she refuses to eat and her crop swells.

    Even after all of these things, my baby still needed a vet for a crop flush and meds. But that doesn't mean your baby will not recover. My girl is still hanging in there and only eats hard boiled eggs drenched in yogurt, but atleast she is eating. She is losing weight fast. Her crop is still large, although there is no smell to her breath. She is still under the heat lamp at night, (we got down to 44 degrees last night) and she is very tired all the time. But she is no where near death.

    These are about the only things you can do for a sour crop. Keep her warm, hydrated, feed soft foods, keep the good bacterias in the crop alive with yogurt and probios in the water and use the vaginal cream. Keep up with all this till her crop starts to move. If she gets bad enough and you have no vet, you may have to put her down. But give her every chance you can give her and work it till the end.

    Good luck with your baby. I am right there with you on this. Keep us posted on her condition. And again, I am so sorry your baby is ill. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  9. T-Amy

    T-Amy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thank you Twocrowsranch. Your info was VERY helpful & I really appreciate it. I hope your girl gets better soon!
    Yes, she is pooping, but not a lot; probably relative to the amount she's actually consuming Since you explained that the liquid in her vomit is because of the yeast that helps me. I just read this & because she's already roosting I am not going to try to get her to take the medicine tonight given she may be too lethargic to swallow. We don't have electric in the coop yet to have a heat lamp but we'll get on that as it's on the To-Do list before winter. Unfortunately our nights last & this are in the high 30's. I could put another hen with her to give her some body heat?
    Should I continue with the antibiotics in addition to the yeast cream?
    If TSC has it, I can get real Nystantin there but I'm wondering if in the AM she will eat it mixed with Yogurt (she seems to only want to eat in the AM). It defeats the purpose to give probiotics and antibiotics at the same time so guess I'm back to the syringe thing. I really prefer her to eat as i'm afraid of aspirating her lungs with fluid.
    Yours were great suggestions & having dealt with yeast issues, I should have translated to her.
    I'll keep you posted!
     

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