3 problems: worms, mites and lice all at the same time?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by lalaland, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. lalaland

    lalaland Crowing

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    flock consists of 4 chickens about a year old, and 6 chicks between 8 and 12 weeks. I haven't wormed these chickens.

    Two of the older hens have scaly leg mites, I've been treating them for about 8 months - it gets better, and then they come back. These two are mutt chickens with feathers on their legs. I haven't tried ivermectim for the leg mites, just oils of every sort and last week I resorted to WD40 which didn't seem to do anything.

    Another of the older hens seems to have raggedy feathers and I'm thinking feather mites - she is losing her feathers on the sides of her neck and her bum feathers just look scraggly. She is also on the thin side, despite being a voracious eater - so I'm thinking worms. She is not a healthy chicken, she has reproductive oddities and wheezes like crazy - I got her when she was about 3 months old and she was wheezing from the start. But today I noticed she is getting thinner.

    Does it make sense to do this: first, treat the whole flock with wazine, wait two weeks, and with the pullets repeat the wazine, and with the older hens do the ivermectim - the drops on the back of the neck?

    Or should I put off the worming, and do the permethrin instead? and if I dust with permethrin, how much do I put on the hens? and can the chicks tolerate the permethrin?

    I am assuming I should do both worming and dusting at the same time - thinking it would be too stressful on them.

    What do you think?
     
  2. daryl

    daryl In the Brooder

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    there is a product called poultry protector .do a search. I have not had the need for it but I do plan on buying some. Its a spray. kills mites and fleas.
    as for the worms different treatment I personaly prefer organic metheds so I would go with DE but you have to do some reading up on that.theres lotd of info on DE "Diatomaceaus Earth"
     
  3. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    Quote:Actually that product doesn't kill mites and lice - it cleans the area of the eggs, it washes the mites off, but it won't kill them. Mites are very very tricky. It's strictly an enzyme, which will never kill parasites. Please do keep that in mind. It could be a great thing but having had a lot of experience with mites, I'm not sure how effective it would be. They're very careful to say that it washes them off, but it doesn't say that it kills them. Since they're nearly microscopic, I'd be a little worried that it doesn't actually get them all.

    The definite no-questions way to treat lice and mites is use permethrin dust on the birds or ivermectin in the older birds (see below about using wazine first), and use permethin liquid (goat lice spray - read the label) on the wood, 3' up from the bedding, and in the eyes and cracks and joints of the wood near nest boxes, on roosts, etc.You can worm the next day and get it all done. Give them all yogurt that day. (Put them out of the coop when you're spraying the wood). The permethrin doesn't penetrate them.

    Then in 2-4 weeks, you can use ivermectin (5% cattle pour-on, the blue liquid - I buy generic ivermectin) on your adult birds birds to kill blood-taking parasites. You will want to repeat the wazine treatment for the babies at that time. Wazine is meant to be repeated as it only kills adults. In birds not wormed over six months, I would always recommend wazine first anyway as you don't know the parasite load. Too many parasites (larva and adults) dying at once with ivermectin might be too stressful on them, particulary if they've been battling mites.

    You can use ivermectin on them at 4 months old. Use the 5% cattle ivermectin pour-on, the blue liquid. PM me for instructions.

    Unfortunately, mites are too dangerous to go with organic methods which will not kill them. I would recommend you use it if it worked. The permethrin dust is a chemical version of a dust that was once made out of flower petals. It's very safe, much different than things like sevin dust. Mites will take birds down very very quickly.

    And if you use permethrin, dust them thoroughly. Yes the younger birds can withstand it.

    So my suggested game plan:

    Day one: Treat the bedding and birds with permethrin dust. Spray the coops with the permethrin liquid, goat lice spray or with the dust made into a "paint" with water. Paint the legs of the birds again with olive oil , possibly with a little tea tree oil in it, just a tiny bit. (Say you make 1/2 cup of oil, use 3 drops of pure tea tree oil). You'll get the leg mites on the 2nd worming.

    Day two: Worm with wazine in the water, all birds. Feed them some yogurt.

    Seven days later: redust with permethrin to get hatching lice.

    Two to four weeks from first treatment.
    Worm all adults with ivermectin pour-on. That will take care of the remaining adults, the larva, and leg mites. Retreat the babies with wazine.

    When babies are four months: Worm with ivermectin pour-on. Don't re-worm until your twice annual worming.

    Thereafter: worm adults and birds "of age" with ivermectin - in the fall and spring is when I do it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
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  4. lalaland

    lalaland Crowing

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    oh, I LOVE having a plan, thanks so much. I was dithering back and forth on whether to tackle mites or worms first. I did not realize what bad shape the older hens were in when I got them last fall (to keep my sole flock survivor company until I could get chicks in the spring to rebuild my flock).

    I've never had lice or mites before- yuck.

    Ok, so I have never "dusted". I assume: dust is a powder, shake it on the bird under the wings, on the vent area.....how do you get it on their neck without getting it into their eyes and nostrils?

    is it safe for people to breathe? should I wear a mask?

    how much do you put on? how much is too much?[​IMG]

    from what I've read, I should also treat their dust bath area - again, how much do I use?

    are you thinking one or two or three containers of dust (I don't even know how much comes in a container) - for 3 standard hens, one banty and the 6 pullets, plus the coop and dust bath area.

    Natalie, before I posted I searched and found a couple of your posts with nice, clear and detailed instructions about using the ivermectin so I feel clear about that.

    I haven't found a source of food grade DE in Minnesota yet.
     
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  5. lalaland

    lalaland Crowing

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    oops forgot. I assume no egg eating for the 14 days after I worm, right? Can I cook the eggs for the chickens? or no?
     
  6. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    Quote:Yes, the dust is a powder in a shaker can. Just read the active ingredient for "permethrin". It's called "Garden and Poultry dust", or "Livestock Lice Dust", "Poultry Dust", etc. Wear gloves, just don't breathe it. Dust of any kind is neither good for man nor beast if breathed in a lot. If you have a mask that's great. Keep some paper towels handy so you can wipe your gloves off of them and then cover the birds' faces with your hand, - dust under the wings, back okf neck, up under them, around the vent. Use your hands to ruffle the feathers and get the dust to settle all in the feathers. One can should handle all the birds, another can or two should handle everything else really.

    If you had crested breeds, or those with beards, I'd advise you to use some Adams Flea and Tick spray and spray their crests/beards/cheeks. (For future reference.)

    And yes, I love having a plan, too. [​IMG] Often I feel a bit paralyzed if I don't have one - so much information, etc. So I like to write stuff down to simplify it like that. [​IMG]

    After you worm, yes - 14 days. Yes, you can use the cooked eggs for chickens, or even hatching.

    "Too much" is where you're just wasting the dust. In the end, you just want them powdered but not a cloud around them like "Pigpen" from the snoopy cartoons. [​IMG]

    On the dust bathing area, just stick with the DE there - sprinkle it on, stir it in. LIke you were using powdered sugar on a dessert.

    While you are dusting them, just take the time to feel each bird's weight, check her out, use it as a late summer check-up to make sure everyone's in good shape. And try to enjoy it. It's not a fun task, but there's something satisfying about working with your hands and knowing you're doing something positive and great for your flock. [​IMG]
     
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  7. lalaland

    lalaland Crowing

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    ok, am going out to do this probably in the morning - just got back from the feed store and there is a tornado watch - everyone is a bit edgy right now.

    thanks so much for the help. I did find the ivermectin and the goat lice spray, the feed store told me it will soon be illegal to sell those in minnesota unless you buy through a vet.
     
  8. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    /sigh I hate the regulations that keep piling on us - products that are parts of flowers, for heaven's sakes - and now regulated. Oh well.

    Good luck in your storm! I hope the tornadoes stay away. Please let me know how it goes; I'll be subscribed to the thread in case you update. [​IMG]
     
  9. lalaland

    lalaland Crowing

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    ok, i dusted the first thing this morning, even before coffee!

    all I have to say is whoever wrote the warning label ("avoid skin contact, wash skin for 20 minutes...) has to be dreaming!

    I do think that of the 4 adults, only sweetpea seems to have a problem. i didn't see any mites, but she is definitely light in weight, poor baby. She is also the most human averse chicken I have ever had, and she struggled continously through out the dusting. I'm sure I am better dusted than she!

    Everyone else's health seems pretty good, except for the featherfooted scaly leg mite hen and rooster - but they are of good weight, and their feathers are shiny, eyes and nostrils clear, etc.

    I have showered, and am sitting down for my first cup of coffee, then I'll go change out the water and add the wazine.

    I'm guessing sweetpea's poor health left her pretty vulnerable to what I think might be feathermites. Anything other than worming that I can do to boost her health? As I've said, she has reproductive problems (eggs - double yolkers, wind eggs, no eggs, regular eggs, eggs with funny formed shells) and respiratory problems (rattling and wheezing, at night she "clacks" with her breathing, and her whole body moves with each breath). She has had these respiratory problems since last October when I brought her home from a farmer with the other two featherfoots. she is a standard sized mutt.
     
  10. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    Quote:I wonder if your lighter hen is a more nervous and 'worrying' type than the others, which I find often manifests itself in a thinner bird. They're also easier to scare or bully away from the feeder. Birds get so good at this that by mere subtle body language they can keep another hen away from the feeder all day.

    As for health boosting, yes. First, I'd use vetRx on her to try to reduce her inflammation in her respiratory tract due to (???) that she had. It's non-medicinal but it can be of great help in bringing comfort and air to birds. I would use it on her nares and cleft of the roof of her mouth for a week - see if it brings ANY comfort to her at all, any cessation in her clacking.

    Also, vitamin A is a very important vitamin to respiratory health. Vitamin D is very important to calcium utilization (and thus laying eggs that fit within the realm of 'normal'). For her, considering she's having issues with both, I'd use cod liver oil twice weekly. It will not harm the other birds. You simply spray on the top of the feed at first serving twice a week. Use a hand-held spray bottle on mist setting.

    I'd also make sure she is on a high protein laying crumble or pellet - 18%, 20% if you can find it there. The protein doesn't seem to be the issue with her "misses" in laying but it will help her over all health. Of course the laying crumble has the balanced nutrition intended for the average layer. because she's not average (because few hens are) I'd also provide free choice oyster shell. Crushed, n ot pelleted. For her, I'd put some of the 'flour' of the oyster shell in her feed once weekly. The "flour" is just the flour-like dusty stuff in the oyster shell crumbles. Sometimes they don't eat quite enough oyster shell. Alternately, I'd give her a 1/2 tums crushed in a quickly eaten damp snack (oatmeal, boiled egg) once every other week until you see her get back on track.

    If you really feel motivated, you could try sprinkling tumeric and cayenne alternately on their feed a couple of times a week. Tumeric is an immune booster that is said to even have action against virus issues. Cayenne is helpful for respiratory issues and has its own benefits as far as immune systems go. Neither would hurt, and it's possible that both could help.

    You can also use a little VetRx as a helpful semi-preventative on feather-legs to help reduce scaley mites once you treat them. Ivermectin really is the best way to kill scaley mites, then VetRx to keep them away. The product has a slight antiseptic action too.

    I'd also give sweetpea yogurt for a week - all the hens can get this - and then just weekly or so. Also do today when you worm. The living bacteria will help her better digest and absorb food and use it for fuel. It'll also help her laying. I'd also try to keep her as happy and calm as possible because sometimes double-yolks can be caused by a yolk getting off tract and into the abdomen, and then getting pulled back into the "egg funnel" along with the other yolk. Aggitation can sometimes cause this, or heavy handling (which I'm sure isn't occuring there).

    Also for future reference if she starts to not lay and you see white discharge from her vent, suspect salpingitis and/or peritonitis and have penicillin ready just in case.

    She might have a permanently carrier type respiratory illness. She might have had access to a lot of mildew and have something like some remaining fungus in her respiratory system. But I think boosting her nutrition, tweaking her diet to correct the egg issues, and then watching her should help - I hope so.
     

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