3wk old dieing quail. Helep!

[Helen2]

I live in Canberra, Australia. Up to now the outside of my quail environment has been cool and they have had 80 f temp in the brooder. They get covered at night.
Last night was different. It was a warm night so I turned the light off in their brooder and the temp stayed at 80 f when I checked it at times during the night.
They have started sleeping in the cardboard toilet roll at night a few nights ago. Last night they did the same - that is one of the reasons why I turned the light off last night and because it was so warm. Till around 11.00am this morning they were heathy eating and moving around.
It looks like they have had a stroke and are finding it difficult to eat. One is doing better then the other at eating. When I put them down, they imediately fall onto their side and can't get up. The one that eats only eats if I keep it upright but immediately falls over when I am not holding it.

The booder set up has, chick food, shallow water with marbels x2 and tall container with water to keep moisture in the air and the ground cover is cat litter clumping clay (shape of tiny stones) and a light/heat which is made up of 2 x 40 watt light balbs which I turned on and off to keep it at 80 deg. I had it at 90 f at first, then at 85 f and now it has been 80 deg for the last 2 days. I have no idea if they are cold or hot. They are not shivering at all. I found them at first spawled out on their sides not moving with eyes half open. They were both on the opposite ends of the brooder. Like I said, last night was the first night I had their light off all night but when i checked the thermometer in the brooder it was 38 f. I had the light off this morning also because it was still 80 f. I opened the windows in the room to let it cool down for my children and the temp in the brooder has fallen to 78 f so the thermometer is working in the brooder.

My husband is holding onto them at the moment and keeping them upright and they drink water now and again when they are offered it.

Please help me with advice on what to do from your wise experience please. This is my first ever attempt to breed Japanese Quail. I had 4 hatch and apart from the two I am mentioning now, I had two that died days after they were born. They ate very well the days they were alive also. My family and I had gone out and came back with them looking like they had a stroke also but they didn't eat at all and their head was very floppy and they kept falling forward and onto their back. They died on different days.
What am I doing wrong? Help please!
Thanks for reading this and please excuse all writing mistakes. I wanted to put this post up as soon as possible.

 

[TheRealTimShady]

i'll make this short so you can read it quick.

1st. scrap the kitty litter, i bet they are eating it, can't be good, get either paper shavings if you havn't nothing at the time, or pine/aspen shavings, some sort of wood(NOT CEDAR!)

2nd. chick starter is not good enough for them(at about 17% protien its to low) get GAMEBIRD STARTER 24% protien or higher(i realize you probably can't get this right away, but asap)

3rd. not sure what happend, i'm guessing they were eating kitty litter, did the food run out overnight? make sure they drink PLENTY of clean water, no poo, no kitty litter in it, just clean water.

4th. maybe antibotic, i don't feed my quails this as i havn't had an issue, quailladyoffortmyers can help you out more on that one, you can either message her or she will be popping on here shortly i bet

edit: just putting this on here now so you could see it. Not sure what the issue is, temps seem fine, even if they went a little low, shouldn't be an issue, is there anyway you can post a photo of the bird in question on here so we can see.

 

[TheRealTimShady]

one other thing i just thought of, if they are walking on little "stones" as you put it, they MIGHT have cut their feet and some of the kitty litter "stuff" may have gotten into the bloodstream causing issues. Not sure if this is possible or anything, but get them away from that litter, thats the main thing i can think of.

either that or just bad stocks, do you keep them in contact with ANY other sort of animal?

 

[La Mike]

X2
Other than that starter feed can be a little large for quail. Grind it to almost powder so they can easily eat it. I would think they may be eating the litter or arent getting enough feed in the first place.

 

[TheRealTimShady]

Quote:
one of my quails ate a piece of feed that was to big once, she walked around with her head all droopy, might be this? rub the throat and feed water, force if you have to with an eye dropper

 

[TheRealTimShady]

as far as food, i realize in your area you might not be able to find GBS, if this is the case find the HIGHEST protien feed (crumbles) you can find, i know some people that feed 28% turkey starter to their birds.

if you still can't find anything you'll have to get the best you can and supplement with dried mealworms (which are about 50% protien) grind them into the food.

 

[joe125]

Quote:
X2 on the checklist here, but X2Billion on the clumping kitty litter.

 

[TheRealTimShady]

Quote:
X2 on the checklist here, but X2Billion on the clumping kitty litter.

yea i did a little research on it, no just remember all this information is about cats, not birds, but if this stuff can do that to a cat, i bet its even worse for a quail

this link is a warning about clumping kitty litter and how cats shouldn't eat it - http://web.archive.org/web/20010409230007/http://www.petconsumerreport.com/freeissue/kittylitter.htm

here is a rather interesting post on some bbs about it, the person in the 2nd post has tons of information about the main ingrediant that makes it clump called Sodium Bentonite. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=286497

 

[Helen2]

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies.
I am dumping the litter! The kitty litter stones are not hard as such or sharp and never got hot. The baby's feet are not cut or hurt at all.
It is "CATSAN Cat Litter Clumping Clay". The packet says it is entirely made up of naturally occuring Australian bentonite.
Thinking about it though, powder from it has coated the light holder. That couldn't be good for the babies breathing it in.

Ok, now the water is changed very frequently and the baby quail's food is fine (like breadcrumbs) and is very high in protein - I have to admit though, I made it up myself.

I am also sorry if this might upset some people but I do not want to give medication to my birds unless it is natural.
They never ran out of food.
They are not near any animal of any kind.

I hope I have answered everyone so far. Thank you.

Can I use newspaper to cover the floor of the brooder. Is the ink ok for them in the newspaper?
I have plenty of fishtank little pebbles (small/medium size). Could I use these?
Has anyone any tips of how I should handle them when they are like this?
Is there such a thing as giving them too much water and should I be trying to feed them food?

They look very tired the pore little things!
They are 6 cm long from forhead to backside and are not skinny.
There mums or mum are 14 - 16cm long from forehead to backside and dad a little smaller - is this a good growth for little Japanese quail?

Thanks so much again for all who have replied - Wow!

 

[Helen2]

I am sorry if I am not consentrating who to answer specifically, but I just thought of a few more things.
First I might try blending the layer pellets (Golden Grain Layer Pellets) up that I feed to my quail for an experiment if the same thing occures to my next quail chicks that are due to hatch in a couple of days.
Would the powdered layer pellets be suitable?
Second, I bought mealworms to breed a few times and let them all ( with exception the few ones I have fed the quail) go to beatle. First batch of beatles died with no mealys from them 3 months ago and still waiting. The second batch now are beatle but no new mealys from them. Tried numerous holdings for them. Even had the beatled over mesh for any eggs to fall though to fresh rolled oats underneath. I am not in a position to keep buying mealworms. We do find those bugs in the garden all the time that turn into a ball. We feed them to the adult quail which absolutly love them.
Could I mash thoes insects up and try feeding them to the babies?
Thanks again for your replies!