? 5mo. turkey feed or medicated crumbles? adult?

Discussion in 'Peafowl' started by peafowlmom, Oct 28, 2011.

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  1. peafowlmom

    peafowlmom Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 20, 2011
    Summerville ,SC
    What is the best feed for 5 mo. peachicks? what is the best feed for adults? I/ve been giving chicken starter medicated and scratch. what is the best greens for penned peachicks that don't have hardly any grass and for the winter?
     
  2. Resolution

    Resolution Chillin' With My Peeps

    The best feed for peafowl on the market is UltraKibble fed in a 25% kibble to 75% scratch grain ratio. Do not supplement with any vitamins or minerals to this food because it has already been painstakingly formulated for peafowl. It's sold at Tractor Supply and Southern States and many other stores. The birds will consume ~ 40% food on this diet. Keep a careful eye on your expenditures in your aviary diary and you should notice an appreciable savings over time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
  3. Choctaw Valley Farm

    Choctaw Valley Farm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jan 16, 2010
    Oklahoma
    We used Muzuri Feed at one time but at $22 to $28 ea for a 40lb bag or what ever the feed store wants to charge you the day you order it, plus when you buy a ton at a time so 50 bags at $25 ea is $1250.00 even 40 bags is $1000.00. Lone Star Feed has a breeder mix $12 to $14 ea for a 50lb bag, Purina also makes a Game Bird feed around $16.00 for a 50lb bag.

    I know some will call me down on this but why buy a Steak Dinner for $30.00 when you can get a Bologna Sandwich for $3.00 and it does almost the samething, more isn't always better.

    But to each their own if you only have 5 or 6 birds and don't need to buy that much feed then go Muzuri but when buying a lot of feed at one time I would go a different way. It's bad when your feed bill is more then your house payment.
     
  4. Resolution

    Resolution Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:That's pretty high. A supplement goes much further. Here's how. Scratch grain is the bulk feed. Most of what the birds eat each day is scratch grain, which is substantially cheaper than any processed feed product. Scratch is not particularly nutritious. It's purpose is to fill the crop of the birds, to make them feel satiated. The UltraKibble supplement is 40% protein. That's mixed into the scratch grain at a 2 to 8 ratio for Indian Peafowl and hybrids with an Indian mother, 3 to 7 for a hybrid with high % Green and 4 to 5 for a Green Peafowl. During breeding season increase kibble ratio by one. Secondly, cut back on the amount of food put out each day. Where people tend to leave a full hopper of feed of soft feed (crumbles or pellets) out all day every day, with this zoo maintenance regime one puts out only as much as the birds can consume in a single day. A single teaspoon of the kibble is all the birds require to meet all their nutritional requirements.
    Additional management foods like melons, squash, apples can be put out to keep the birds busy for the day but really behavioral enrichment is a better use of the bird's time. If you want your birds on longer legs, don't feed them like domestic birds. They tend to eat when they're bored-not hungry. On average, the aviculturist/zoo ends up saving upwards of 40% of their feed budget.
    I'll invite you to work out the math and revisit how you might manage your birds differently.
     
  5. FrenchToast

    FrenchToast "Draft Apple Ridge" a Bit from Heaven

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    Jan 10, 2010
    UP North WI
    Who makes the UltraKibble? Where do you find it ?

    My mill has been putting something calle Show Master Sheen in my feed. It has 30% protien. Very similar to ManaPro, I think Calf Mana that is also high protien.

    According to CalfMana it is only 1 tlbs per bird (poultry) per day.

    Would that work if I couldn't find the Ultra Kibble here in WI ?
     
  6. Resolution

    Resolution Chillin' With My Peeps

    There is a banner at the top right of this page for the product line. Here is a direct link. Farmers' Helper
    Call the company directly and ask them where you can purchase the product in your region. Calf Manna is formulated for cattle. Show Preen may be a fine supplement if it is soy free and has some form of animal (preferably fish) in the ratio.

    We should absolutely clear here. Protein is the topic but not all protein is identical. Different species have different nutritional requirements.
    For example, vegetarian species subsist on lower protein diets than those that live on fish. We can throw just about any grain mixture to a pigeon and it's going to be grateful. Try feeding that to a seagull and it will perish. Feeding fish to the pigeon is likewise an exercise in futility. Now a chicken can subsist largely on a grain diet but as its bill and feet are designed to unearth live prey, -that is -animal protein- it has a requirement for a wider ratio of nutrients than the pigeon, which requires exactly no animal protein. Peafowl can also thrive on grain mixture but require a substantially higher % of animal protein. Not only do peafowl hunt for animal protein, they consume a wider range of animals. Chickens eat bugs. Peafowl subsist on frogs, tadpoles, lizards, snakes, mice, and then all the insects and bugs that chickens hunt for. Obviously peafowl take a much longer time to mature than chickens and they live much longer lives.
    They require more optimal nutrition - a wider range of nutrients than the chicken. A peafowl could actually live on the same diet as the seagull. A peafowl could also live on the same diet as the chicken. Nevertheless, the diet of the seagull and the diet of the chicken are equally inappropriate in that the range of nutrients required by the peafowl to grow its plumage, the cellular regeneration of that plumage, the oils of its plumage- all of it - that requires certain amino acids and vitamins in very specific ratios- a very specific balance-. Do peafowl live on chicken food?
    Yes. Do these peafowl reproduce and thrive? Yes. But we all know they fare better if supplemented with higher protein. But what people don't realise is that the higher protein provided in most feeds is produced by soybean meal and that material is not ideal for any bird- especially reproducing birds, growing birds, moulting birds. Why? Because not only is soy deficient in specific amino acids only found in animal protein, it is also protected protein- it requires a great deal of energy to metabolize the protein and the birds have to eat a lot of it. They poop most of it out undigested. In other words, the soft feed (crumbles, mashes, pellets) is inefficient. You are wasting your money feeding it. It also is a potential disease vector as it produces more poop than you can handle to clean up regularly without them tracking it all over the place. The soft food is disintegrating into dust and mixing with feather dander, atmospheric dust and fecal matter to produce poultry smut. Poultry smut is inhaled by the birds and preened all over the plumage. It is the disease vector of sinusitis, mycoplasma, psuedomonas and any number of other infectious respiratory ailments.

    People rearing rare heirloom mutations are especially vulnerable to nutrition deficiencies because they are, like other artificially selected domestic species, born immune deficient.
    Feeding breeding stock on optimal diets will logically produce a higher% of chicks with desired phenotype because of the homogeneous nature of their selective breeding. Chicks exhibiting the most dramatic pigmentation that will develop with the best reproductive health (charcoal for example) and least expression of deleterious genes (blindness in cameo for example), will have hatched from egg yolks built with optimal nutrients.

    Apply that logic to developing birds and moulting adults - think about the regeneration of cells. Help the birds' annual regeneration (moulting) by providing the greatest span of nutrients- complete proteins- fatty acids, antioxidants and etc.

    Moulting actually begins before the first feather falls. It begins at the end of the breeding season when the chicks are hatching. The new cells of the adults require the same optimal nutrients as the new chicks.

    So- eliminate soy and try to use diets formulated for birds not mammals. If you must supplement birds without a quality avian supplement use one formulated for reptiles.
    Never add vitamins or minerals to diets as they are already provided in the ratio of the diet. Nutrients already provided in the maintenance fare will not be effective if you add your own favorite mix of minerals and vitamins unless you are an avian nutritionist. If you wish to increase specific vitamins or minerals provide it in a food- not a dog food not a cat food- a whole food.
    And try to not just throw food out in a non-consistent haphazard manner. Your birds look a bit sluggish? It's time for a week of walnuts. Cut back on the rest of what you are feeding so the bird makes the most of the nutrients in the walnut. Two or three walnuts is a whole lot of nutrition for any bird. Why would it need it's regular ration with a walnut on top of that? That's just feeding the inner glutton in all of us. We like to have that extra piece of pie. We also like to buy lots of toilet paper. We humans tend to eat too much and our waste is evidence that we don't actually need most of what we consume. We do this unintentionally with our birds as well. So help them keep a clean engine- keep them hungry and feed them clean foods.

    Supplement their maintenance diet with appropriate feedstuffs.

    -For those of you on incredibly tight budgets - here's something to keep in mind.
    You can afford to drop soft feed altogether ( crumbles, mashes, pellets) and replace with scratch grain ( soy free) with oystershell and grit provided frequently- if and when- you consistently provide them with fish protein and nuts. Look for inexpensive canned fatty fish and provide this to your birds at least once a week- you'll need more for those months of regeneration.
    Also, grow your own guppies. They have live birth every fifteen or so days and are incredibly inexpensive to maintain. This is a far better source of animal nutrition than insects and sustainable for any budget.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  7. ColbyNTX

    ColbyNTX Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 2, 2009
    Woods, TX
    I feed all my birds (turkeys, peas, chickens, quail, pheasant) a 20% layer pellet at this age and up year round. Its about $12.00 a bag. I only give scratch as a treat. Around here, scratch cost more than the 20% layer and its like feeding candy to a kid, nothing good comes from it and it only makes you fat. There are many different to feed birds and who's to say which way is best?
     
  8. Resolution

    Resolution Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Scratch Grain makes birds fat? I wasn't aware of this. One thing is certain, the soy meal used in feeds today is not the soy you were feeding ( and eating in the form of eggs or meat) of even ten years ago. Scratch grain provides satiation. It fills the crop. Millet, corn and wheat are good sources of protein, each with their own unique range of nutrients. Oats are not high in protein but they do provide additional dietary fibre. Scratch grain does not disintegrate in ambient humidity and during foraging to mix with feather dander, atmospheric dust and fecal material to create Poultry Smut, a major disease vector.
    A few questions worth exploring when recalibrating ones management plans for their flock:

    1. How many bags of layer pellet do you go through a month?
    a. How rapidly is the feed passed through the birds' digestive systems?
    b.How much of that material is ending up in manure undigested? T

    These are critical factors that we tend to overlook as the convenience of the one feed fits all model suits our short-term management needs.
    Something to remember, until very recently in agricultural history, scratch grain was the only food available for poultry. We all know the egg industry wasn't born yesterday.
    Highly processed (pulverized to powder and then formed into pellets or crumbles or left as a powdery mash) soft feed came about to meet the ever growing demands of the American consumer that relied more and more on poultry for the table.

    The poultry feed industry depends on the ignorance of consumers to utilise the equivalent of fast food to their poultry. It contains all the necessary ingredients in the lowest possible levels to meet specific guidelines. It is not designed for reproductive fitness or long-term health. The lifespan of the birds is negatively effected. What is more, that 12 dollar a bag fast food is used up very quickly because the birds require so much of it daily to meet their nutritional demands. 12.00 a bag seems like a good price until you multiply the rest of the factors.

    How much time are you spending scraping wet sticky manure off perches, walls and the floors of your outbuildings? How many of your eggs have manure smeared all over them from manure coated feet? Do you have any birds that suffer feather pecking? Has an upper respiratory infection ever passed through your flocks? Most people supplement with produce and so on so the birds aren't starving. Please don't read my dry writing blather as anything but steady stream notes. I'm not a jerk and I love everyone that raises animals. Animal people are good people. PERIOD.


    How often do you have to drive to purchase the inexpensive soft feed? How much gasoline are you using each way?

    Something else to think about- how many times have the ingredients of that fast soft food already been trucked from field to processing facility # 1 to processing facility # 2 to bagging facility to feed mill to feed store? That's a big carbon foot print. Scratch grain is shipped once from the field to the mill. No processing involved.


    What is the difference nutritionally speaking between your scratch grain and your soft pellet/crumble/mash? Lots of processed meal, that's actually very good for the birds no doubt. Minerals and vitamins- corn middlings and so on- that's not the problem.


    Scratch Grain is generally comprised largely of millet. Millet is not a cash crop and most millet grown in the country if non-GMO Corn is a bit more touchy as it's difficult though not impossible to source a non-GMO corn infused scratch grain. The same is true of wheat. Corn and Wheat make up a great deal of the ingredients of your processed soft feed. They are not as problematic as the elephant in the room- the source of the largest block of nutrients in that feed.

    The problem is soy.

    The major issue is going to be the leguminous crops like soy and alfalfa. It is impossible to source non-GMO soy in the USA at this time. Alfalfa is quickly taking that lead. Soon all alfalfa will be GMO as well.

    Are you feeding this to your birds every single day? Are you eating eggs produced by these birds on a regular basis?


    Round Up

    Round Up Ready Crops


    Pathogens in Round Up Ready Crops

    Traditional American family farms that continue to use non-GMO crops maintain contracts with quality feed manufacturers.

    Small feed companies can afford to do business with organizations that sell non-GMO crop commodities but as these crops cost a few dollars more an acre to produce, it doesn't fit the profit margin objective models of major industrial feed corporations. The processed meal that goes into all of the soft feeds available regardless of what the name on the bag is are being produced by one of four major industrial feed manufacturers and they are all using GMO soy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  9. ColbyNTX

    ColbyNTX Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 2, 2009
    Woods, TX
    Like I said, there are many ways to feed birds. They can be kept alive on a corn diet but not what I would do. I don't have any of the above mentioned problems you listed. Mine do get some scratch everyday but it's more like a treat. I think I will stick with whats been working for me for years. Maybe someday when I develope my own diet I can try to use BYC to advertise as well.
     
  10. Resolution

    Resolution Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:ColbynTX, have you read the links I've just provided? The issue is that the feed you've used for years isn't actually the same feed that you've used for years. GM Soy has only been used in livestock feed for a very short time. The company that makes your feed is constantly searching for cheaper commodities. The label doesn't alert you to the fact that they've switched from non-GM soy to round up ready soy. That's the crux of the issue.

    The objective of my post is to help the poultry hobbyist make more informed decisions. If you feed your birds a maintenance diet consisting primarily of GM Soy you are feeding them --and yourself- through their eggs and flesh-- round up and the pathogens associated with round up ready crops. This is my personal bias. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. The vast majority of poultry fed in the world are the hundreds of millions of industrial farmed birds and they are all being fed on a ration very like your 12 dollar a bag pellet. They thrive on the stuff, for the few months or weeks that they are intended to be productive egg layers or growing broilers. That's not the diet of the breeding stock the producers/broilers are fed on. Why? Because poultry scientists know that production diets are deficient in vital nutrients necessary for reproduction and moulting...

    The other assertion I'm making is that scratch grain (not corn by itself) is a better buy than soft feed containing soy. Please investigate the value of different grains and seeds and create a better mix if you don''t like your scratch grain. Pigeon feed may be a good way to go as a foundation. It's filling, requires an extended time in the digestive system to metabolize and is actually quite high in nutrients. You just need to supplement that bulk dry food -that you've discovered on your very own- your custom seed/grain mix- you can then increase the nutritional value of that dry mix with sufficient fat and appropriate protein.

    Supplement with animal protein, whatever source you can find. -Cooked eggs from birds not fed on soy for example- guppies, canned fish, canned meat - whatever your budget can afford sustainably. Cheap peanut butter , canned tuna fish and canned chick peas mixed into cooked oatmeal -that's a nice contribution to a diet -twice a month say.

    Cooked sweet potatoes, millet, canned tuna (no salt) once a week- pigeon grain mixed into scratch grain fed the rest of the week - be creative- my assertion is that there are better sources of more appropriate protein and dietary fat/fibre than what is fed in commercial maintenance ration.

    Birds wander about eating foods of low quality for most of the day every day. Once in a while they discover a larder of high nutrition- a termite nest for example, acorns, locusts and then they gorge. The rest of the time they are back to eating foods of low nutrition value --generally high in dietary fibre. Peafowl are different because they are hunters -they don't consume as much low nutrition food. They can't afford to. They have a lot more plumage to grow and maintain. They also live much longer than the other species you've mentioned that you keep.

    All that said, I know people that have raised their birds on nothing but corn for decades and had no problems. Some people live on a few bowls of rice a day and still have children.
    Wild burros live on tumbleweeds and a pet donkey is getting the best equine food on the market. The wild burro may live just as long or even longer than the groomed domestic one.

    It's all good. Just try and open your mind a bit and examine more closely just what your lay pellet is made of and think about the fact that more people than ever are rearing chickens.
    The profit margin of the poultry feed manufacturer is more important to their industry then the long-term health of your birds. That's a fact.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
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