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a good source for basic genetics?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by syble, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. syble

    syble Chillin' With My Peeps

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    So i tried the forum search first... that didn't work so well... every term/word i tried yeilded a million results and none of them ended up with anything helpful. So I figured i'd try directly with you helpfull BYC buddies. I'm looking to understand basic chicken genetics better. I'm not necissarily new to genes, i have a good understanding for rabbits, and could make whatever color i needed by that way. I understand that some genes are dominant, others recessive and others still codominant. I also understand that genes layer so to speak, so that when paired with one set of genes vs. another the result can be completely different. What i don't know are the rules (so to speek of the game).

    For example, in rabbits, I know there are only 2 basic colors of rabbits, black(B) and brow(b), these 2 colors can then be diluted into blue (B? dd) and lavender (bb dd). They can then further be modified to be shaded (e = tort, ej= harlequin, can be codominant), can be given wild type (A) or solid (aa), can be hidden all together by REW genes, or hidden mostly by BEW... List goes on and on for all the different features. I feel very strongly that understanding what makes a rabbit a certain color helps me as a breeder to constantly improve the color as well as type on my rabbits, and would like to apply that to chickens.

    I only found 1 site so far that was difficult to understand, but would like to keep trying.

    I'd like to start off with the basic rules, what are dominant, and what are recessive? What are the base colors for chickens? What are some of the basic genes i can work with? I'm aware of the blue set already (Black = B?, blue = Bb, and splash=bb), to me it sounds like dominent and codominant and recessive. Any more information would be appreciated. Particularlly interested in solid genes too, sounds like white is a masking gene, unless its the elusive recessive white?

    In short,
    HELP!
    Thanks
    Sib [​IMG]
     
  2. Teach97

    Teach97 Bantam Addict

    Nov 12, 2008
    Hooker, OK
    birds aren't what i would call basic...

    that one you found was probably right on....I have a pigeon book around here somewhere and even having taken genetics courses it gets kinda wild...
     
  3. syble

    syble Chillin' With My Peeps

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    michigan
    when it comes to anything its never basic. but what i meant was to start layering. there are easily a dozen gene sets that we used with rabbits that would make a hundred or so different looking rabbits. I didn't start with all 12 at first, only 1 set, base color, then i added dilution, then i added a modifier and so on, and each layer i added was more complex and made the outcome grow exponentially, but i had a good grasp on the way it worked [​IMG]
    Thanks
    Sib
     
  4. gumbii

    gumbii Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 7, 2010
    bell gardens, ca
    i used this calculator to understand what makes a color morph a morph...

    http://home.kpn.nl/h.meijers69/kruising.html


    it's easy to understand genetics after playing with it and paying attention to every chicken that comes out on it...



    or buy a book...
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Tempe, Arizona
    Quote:No. Blue is Bl; not-blue (which is not the same as black) is bl+; splash is two copies of the blue gene: Bl/Bl. There are no knwn co-dominant colour genes in chickens. Comb genes can be co-dominant, but are the only ones.

    There are two white genes: dominant and recessive. Recessive White is not elusive, but very common. Dominant white is less leaky than recessive white. One copy of dominant white prevents black pigment; two copies prevents red pigment. Recessive white prevents all pigment, but an occasional feather may end up with colour. Recessive white prevents the pigment from being formed; dominant white prevents it from being placed in the feather.

    http://chickengenetics.edelras.nl/ is a great starting point if you already have a pretty good understanding of genetics. One thing to realize is that birds and mammals differ in the male vs female chromosomes.
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Tempe, Arizona
    Quote:Most people who consider themselves pretty knowledgeable on genetics of dogs, horses or rabbits, and then start trying to understand chicken genetics consider the chickens to be considerably more complex. I do not know the genes for any other creature, so I personally cannot compare.
     
  7. phasianidae

    phasianidae Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  8. syble

    syble Chillin' With My Peeps

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    michigan
    some of the modifiers for rabbits can be quite complex, depending on what they are paired with they express differently. like you can have 2 different rabbits that look the same but are genetically formed differently, and you only find that out by test breeding, but if you were to breed them together, the litter would be all over the map.

    Chickens are complex, male and female patterning challenges. And the whole wild vs(what non wild?) Is confusing... What confuses me most is no seeing what is dominant over what.

    E range for example, E is Extended black, check. Then they have a modifier (tag along) Birchen that when added is E(R) (sorry cant do the little raised letter), but it is part of the E series of genes.... as is Wheaten E(WH), and partridge/brown e(b).... So what dominates what here?theoretically partridge is at the bottom of the list and a bird would have to be eb/eb for it to look partridge right? but the other 3 are all described dominant? cant have 3 dominant genes in the same line, so who comes out on top and are there co dominant expressions?
    Thanks
    Sib [​IMG]
     
  9. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Groesbeek Netherlands
    Quote:Let me guess... [​IMG]
     
  10. gumbii

    gumbii Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 7, 2010
    bell gardens, ca
    Quote:you think that's confusing... leopard gecko genetics are intense and seriously complicated... there are 3 styles of albinos, 10 types of hybinos, hundreds of combinations of colors, and characteristics are split up down to eye color... when i bred them, i just stayed with one type/morph and that's it... people on forums were creating abominations and beautiful creations at the same time...


    i learned the chicken stuff pretty fast... the E range catches me off guard sometimes... oh, and dn, choc genes... i don't understand they fully yet...
     

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