Aaaargh! Dog breeders!

[Senna95]

I've been looking for a dog for some time now. I'd really like a Belgian Tervuren or a Groenendael, and have talked to several breeders. None will let me buy one without spaying or nuetering it first. I can see their point...... to some extent. They don't want puppy mills or ramdom, careless breeding. However, what they're doing is NOT RIGHT or fair to those of us that are responsible and take animal husbandry and care seriously.

I would like to train my dogs to be herding dogs (which is what they were originally bred for). IF the dog turns out to have good herding instincts, I'd like to continue on with that line. However, the breeders are saying that I have to show the dog in Conformation and have to get their "champion" in order for me to be able to breed them, or they won't sell them to me. I'm not interested in Conformation: I'd want to breed for herding instinct and temperment. And what happens if I get one that is an AMAZING herder, but isn't quite pretty enough???

I can understand that a health check is required before breeding the dogs (after all, with all the inbreeding that's been done for the sake of Conformation, a LOT of dogs now have major genetic problems)

I think that the Belgians that originally bred them didn't really care about their exact color, size, and length of coat either.

If I buy a dog, it should be MY desision whether or not I want to breed them. Right now breeders have the markets cornered, and there aren't that many breeders of these dogs, which only makes the gene pool of these dogs even smaller.

I went to the pound several times to look for a dog, but it would be honesly very difficult to train a 3-year old pit-bull or rottweiler cross to herd ducks! (that's all I've seen at our local animal shelter)

Maybe we should spay and neuter our ducks and chickens before we send them out too! Someone may outcross them to another breed that we don't approve of!

 

[Stacykins]

Quote:
There is a difference between working varieties of a breed and showing varieties of a breed.

But I do agree that any dog used for breeding should be a CHAMPION, whether in the conformation show ring or a herding show ring. Pet quality or animals that go to be pets should be sterilized. There is already too much of a pet overpopulation..

 

[justbugged]

I can understand the problem. For me I simply charge more for a puppy that is going to be possibly bred. You just need to find a different breeder. Some breeders are very big into showing and such. So what you are looking for isn't important to them. For me I breed for temperament first, and everything else is secondary. I also one have one female, that will only be bred maybe 6 times. After that she will be spayed. For me I don't ever want to show my dogs. Having my puppies become excellent family members is simply more important to me.

I would check with the National club for the breeds that you are looking for. Sometimes it can be harder to find some of the rarer breeds. I know because I would really want to have a South Russian Ovtcharka.

 

[KrisH]

try contacting the national breed club and contact people in the herding lines instead of the show lines. you can check the AKC site to find the national club.

Robert H

 

[Senna95]

Quote:
So in essence we're creating 2 new breeds of dogs. One for show, and one for herding. Within 10 generations they will look and act completely different from each other.

 

[annageckos]

Quote:
So in essence we're creating 2 new breeds of dogs. One for show, and one for herding. Within 10 generations they will look and act completely different from each other.

Yup, pretty much. Look at a lot of the hunting dogs. Labs, pointers, spaniels. Working lines and show lines sometimes look completely different. One is bred for looks, the other for work.

 

[redhen]

How can you spay/ neuter a puppy??

 

[Nicola]

Sort of reminds me when my mum originally picked out our Burmese cat 15 yrs ago (we still have him) his parents were champion pedigree's But the breeder asked my mum if she was planning on breeding him which she wasn't so we got him for slightly cheaper, it was still expensive as he is a pure breed and not pet quality, but we had to make sure we neutered him.

 

[Senna95]

Quote:
So in essence we're creating 2 new breeds of dogs. One for show, and one for herding. Within 10 generations they will look and act completely different from each other.

Yup, pretty much. Look at a lot of the hunting dogs. Labs, pointers, spaniels. Working lines and show lines sometimes look completely different. One is bred for looks, the other for work.

How lame!

My absolutely amazingly beautiful, show quality black copper marans just started laying eggs, and guess what: they're only slightly darker than my RIR's eggs. How sad that so often only one aspect of a breed is concentrated on rather then the entire package.

 

[love-my-wolves]

It sounds to me like those breeders just want to corner "the market" on those breeds, forcing you to pay for Championship pups. Could you inquire into a contract where you are given a year or two to train the dog and establish whether it is what "you" want for breeding, if not you will have it spayed, if so you will pay an additional (small) fee for the right to breed? Also put in the contract that if accidental pregnancy occurs you would pay the fee also, then spay? And maintain contact with them. Or just find another breeder. I personally would walk away, if they aren't interested in perfecting the temperment of their lines (by adding herding) then the pups are probably just bred for show and not what you want, they've had all the "good" traits bred out. (Picturing an empty headed super model

) It's not like you intend to sell the pups and become their competition, you want a working dog.