Adult Rooster breed debate...

Discussion in 'What Breed Or Gender is This?' started by BANTAMWYANDOTTE, May 9, 2011.

  1. BANTAMWYANDOTTE

    BANTAMWYANDOTTE Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ok this is my last post about this roosters breed. Each time I was told a different thing more often than the other. This rooster is apparently confusing alot of us (including me the most). In the first one I was told Production Red more often but my fellow chiken lovers around my hometown say NH. So this is the tie breaker between BYC and them. What is his breed. This thread includes new pictures of him, as well as more information than the others. I personally believe he is a very handsome "hatchery quality" New Hampshire Rooster.

    I am not familiar with the APA standard for New Hampshire's but I am familiar with the breed and they're general appearance. Production Reds are alot darker than this rooster but NH often have alot lighter shading in the neck feathers and different tails than his. This is why a lot of BYC memebers said PR, because they are a mixture of the two. So now I am confused. He is too big to be the PR that the hatchery offers (he wieghs 12 to 13 lbs each time I weigh him at only a year old) He came in a St.Run asstorment of brown egg-layers that a friend and I co-ordered last spring that was to include brown egg layers (st. run). (We asked them to not include red chicks.) He was attacked by a dog while with my friend and badly injured at 6 months old. He was so bad that she couldn't give him the time he needed. I took him and nursed him back to health and created this wonderful, handsome rooster. Please help me ID him for once and for all.

    I also know that he is very friendly with people and pretty easy on his hens, except the more dominant of them. (He was a bit too rough with her because she was trying to brood and tore out some feathers but she healed nicely). He is very loud and crows often. He does quite well in confined coops and free-ranges very close to home. He is very agressive with other roosters and fights with them if given a chance. I have American Gamefowl and he has to stay cofined because he infured a rooster and a Dutch/OEG Bantam rooster while they were caged.

    He is a great rooster and I have a very special place in my heart for him because I saved him. When he came to me he could not walk or eat/drink on his own. I gave him infant formula and oatmeal (along with some medications from the feed store and my friend who is a vetariarian) by hand until he healed enough that one morning he crowed a weak raspy crow and I knew then he would live. He has since grown into a huge rooster who amazes everyone who sees him. The friend who gave him too me often wants to buy or trade for him but he is going no where. I like him so much that I have 22 of his offspring in a brooder right now.

    I hope you can help but whatever the answer is I am not going to care for him and continue to breed from him for a long time to come. I will not retire him from breeding until he is around five or six (god willing). Thanks for any of your honest answers to this post

    Pictures:

    Big Ben when he was 8 months old:

    [​IMG]

    Him and a Golden Comet hen last month:

    [​IMG]

    This is him today with his Red Sex-Link hens (3 years old):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    (Had to remove the name of the hatchery due to almost slandering them and that is not a nice thing to do)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  2. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    He looks like every hatchery Rhode Island Red I've ever seen. Some say that Production Reds are hatchery RIRs, but that is not necessarily true. A Production Red is usually a cross of a RIR and a NH, not just a hatchery RIR. rooster-red had a big RIR that was almost identical to your boy. Your rooster is too dark for a NH, IMO, a different shade of red. The simple truth is that hatchery stock varies so widely that you can't be entirely sure.
     
  3. Domestic_goddess

    Domestic_goddess Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Well I have a "hatchery" RIR that's identical to yours![​IMG]
     
  4. BANTAMWYANDOTTE

    BANTAMWYANDOTTE Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Well, at first this was a four way debate between four friends in my hometown who all have and raise chickens. Each had a different breed they thought Ben was. I thought he was NH (based on the picture from the hatchery) and the others thought RIR, PR, and Cherry egger. (The sad thing is my friend the vet said RIR, don't I feel stupid) This is why I wanted to ask BYC, to gloat when BYC agreed with me. That did not happen, and now I am humbled .........greatly.

    His huge size was the big issue because he is bigger than the average rooster in each of these breeds. However, RIR makes sense because of that. Of all those breeds RIR roosters are the heaviest at 9 1/2 lbs (according to the hatchery) So I must say I agree with you. All the RIR I've seen (not many pure) have been a shade of red similiar to Big Ben's and never as dark as the one pictured on by this hatchery.


    The most debated chicken I have is causing me to wonder if this Hatchery is getting any more of my bussiness. I have had a lot of trouble frm them this year and am not happy with the way they do business. (Got White Rock pullets that were almost all-grey and one is a rooster). After 15 years raising, breeding, and caring for theses animals, I have never been this confused on a (supposed) pure-breed chicken. The big confusion of mine is the fault of Hatchery. The picture they show of the NH looks just like him and the others are all alot darker. Not to mention, thy don't even show a Cherry Egger but they are Red Sex-Links so they would be mostly white and a lot darker shade of red.

    I'll show you and ask one question, If he is a RIR from this, then why is he so much lighter than the ones they show? Why would they advertise dark-red chickens as RIR and ship chicks ordered as RIR that feather out this light? I am not saying I disagree, alot of my family and friends (including the vet) said he was a RIR but is this common of all hatcheries or is this a single hatchery thing? This seems like a good way to loose bussiness...


    Sorry I am so long winded but I am very unhappy with this hatchery ...... If you have more information or experiance similar from cackle, I have a thread for it and would like to hear your story and see my other chickens who were wrong orders from the hatchery. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=6371659#p6371659


    Timothy
    from Ky
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  5. Domestic_goddess

    Domestic_goddess Chillin' With My Peeps

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    What's the hype with a "pure" breed chicken, may I ask? In your other pics you show Rsl which are hybrid mixed breed. If you want a pure breed dark colored RIR buy from a breeder in the future. If you don't like hatcheries don't order from them. I have 49 chicken all hatchery stock and I'm pleased!.....Most of my favorite hens are mixed!
     
  6. schellie69

    schellie69 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 8, 2009
    Kansas
    I would go with hatchery RIR that was my 1st impression.
     
  7. akcountrygrrl

    akcountrygrrl Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:I think it has to do with people ordering a specific breed from a hatchery and not getting a bird that resembles the standard. While ordering from a hatchery, we understand we aren't normally going to get show quality birds. But, it would be nice to at least get purebred birds. I received Old English Game bantams from a hatchery that had crests. This means they are obviously mixed breeds. I didn't want mixed breeds because I was getting these birds to use with my OEGs from breeder stock to work on some new colors. Now, I have to rehome or cull the mixed breed birds because I can't use them in my breeding program. Plus, now I have to find someone with the colors I want and try to get eggs to hatch or get them to ship chicks to Alaska. My breeding program is now set back 3-4 months. It's wasted time, money, and effort for me.
     
  8. Domestic_goddess

    Domestic_goddess Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:I think it has to do with people ordering a specific breed from a hatchery and not getting a bird that resembles the standard. While ordering from a hatchery, we understand we aren't normally going to get show quality birds. But, it would be nice to at least get purebred birds. I received Old English Game bantams from a hatchery that had crests. This means they are obviously mixed breeds. I didn't want mixed breeds because I was getting these birds to use with my OEGs from breeder stock to work on some new colors. Now, I have to rehome or cull the mixed breed birds because I can't use them in my breeding program. Plus, now I have to find someone with the colors I want and try to get eggs to hatch or get them to ship chicks to Alaska. My breeding program is now set back 3-4 months. It's wasted time, money, and effort for me.

    Well you said it yourself,"I think it has to do with people ordering a specific breed from a hatchery and not getting a bird that resembles the standard." Then why did you buy from a hatchery if you wanted "show quality"?...you wasted your own time! Next time don't buy from a hathery!
     
  9. akcountrygrrl

    akcountrygrrl Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:I think it has to do with people ordering a specific breed from a hatchery and not getting a bird that resembles the standard. While ordering from a hatchery, we understand we aren't normally going to get show quality birds. But, it would be nice to at least get purebred birds. I received Old English Game bantams from a hatchery that had crests. This means they are obviously mixed breeds. I didn't want mixed breeds because I was getting these birds to use with my OEGs from breeder stock to work on some new colors. Now, I have to rehome or cull the mixed breed birds because I can't use them in my breeding program. Plus, now I have to find someone with the colors I want and try to get eggs to hatch or get them to ship chicks to Alaska. My breeding program is now set back 3-4 months. It's wasted time, money, and effort for me.

    Well you said it yourself,"I think it has to do with people ordering a specific breed from a hatchery and not getting a bird that resembles the standard." Then why did you buy from a hatchery if you wanted "show quality"?...you wasted your own time! Next time don't buy from a hathery!

    I said that because people are really starting to get disappointed by the hatcheries. Not everyone knows that the hatcheries aren't always honest in their advertising and they feel taken.

    There are many reasons I bought from a hatchery. First and foremost because they carried the colors I wanted. I couldn't find a breeder with those colors and, normally, with bantams the hatcheries don't stray too far from the standard. Shipping and hatching eggs doesn't always pan out the way you hope it does. I was hoping to get a specific number of birds in specific colors. This was my first time, and last time, ordering from that particular hatchery because that was not the only breed of chicken I ordered that was an obvious mix. I live in Alaska so my options are extremely limited. A lot of folks who sell hatching eggs won't ship to Alaska because of the distance the eggs have to travel. It's very hard to get chicks in the middle of winter that you can grow and have ready to lay by summer.

    Hatcheries really need to have a little bit of honesty in their advertising. People order expecting to get a specific breed but end up with something completely different. No commercial hatcheries carry Araucana or Ameraucana but they sure advertise that they do and when someone orders Araucanas or Ameraucana they end up with Easter Eggers.

    Imagine the 4-H member that decides they want to do Ameraucanas as a project. They order some chicks from a hatchery. Spend months working with their bird. They groom it , take it to a show, and then get disqualified because the birds they received aren't the breed they expected to receive. These children love their animals and are very hurt when their animal doesn't do well. Granted, 4-Hers are supposed to know their birds and breeds but Ameraucanas and Easter Eggers often share a lot of similar features with the primary difference being color. Or they order a Cochin from a hatchery and it has vulture hocks. Or a Wyandotte has a single comb rather than a rosecomb.

    There are many reasons people own chickens. My reasons may not be your reasons but I won't judge you because my reasons are different. You asked a question and I attempted to explain one reason (okay, maybe several reasons) people would be looking for purebred birds and frustrated by ordering from hatcheries.
     
  10. BANTAMWYANDOTTE

    BANTAMWYANDOTTE Chillin' With My Peeps

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    It is very true what akcountrygrrl said about the appearance not being anything like we normally see. First of all I never said a single thing about my feelings or reasons for ordering the birds. You simply were given a single impression that I expected show-quality. You assumed that I was a in-experienced young adult with very few years in the chicken world or something similar. So allow me a minute to set you straight.

    First

    This thread had nothing to do with me not getting show quality (or even medium-quality) chicks from a hatchery and my disappointment. IF I believed I would get show quality birds from a hatchery after fifteen years spent becoming a well-respected breeder of SHOW QUALITY American Gamefowl, then I am either living on a deserted island or stupid. I promise I a neither one. I have seen enough eager eyed people at poultry shows holding a hatchery bird and there surprise and disappointment when they were told this. Furthermore, I sell show-quality birds (chicks and adults) and I know the average price. Hatcheries offer chicks at a fraction of that cost. Again, I am not stupid or in any-way that gullible.

    Second

    The true purpose of my second post was to see is the Rooster was was morality and ethics and the loss of these qualities in Hatcheries. They lie and advertise pictures of a product they don't even advertise. That is a very sad thing to me. As a child things were different and I liked it when you could trust a business to provide honest and loyal service both before and after your purchase. Simply put I wanted to share with others that no longer is the customer's happiness a priority with Hatcheries (or any big business these days). The point was to see if I was the only one who experienced this problem and maybe find a hatchery with better customer service and more likely to advertise the product they sell.


    Third

    I am have spent my adult life rescuing and helping chickens in every situation known to man. I have 44 birds besides my breeding stock that I keep for egg chickens and as pets. Of these 44, only 7 of them are not a rescue or a chicken I had to nurse to health after an accident of some sort and all 44 are birds originally ordered from a hatchery. The other 7 I ordered at one time or another I post advice that is aimed only at the best-interest of the chicken involved and always give the chickens owner all the information I have. I am a true chicken lover. So much that I can't even bring myself to eat any of the chicks I raise from my egg hens. I only wish the best to every chicken lover and give them all my support when they are doing the best to provide the best life possible for their flock. I have never been accused of not loving my hatchery chickens. If I didn't love them and care about them, why would bother trying to ID the breed? I only wanted to be able to help the people who buy his offspring know more about what they were getting. (I have morals and ethics)

    Fourth and Final

    The birds I have from hatcheries are better-mannered and more calm than any show bird I have ever seen. I do not care about mixed breed chickens VS pure-bred. I only make a difference between the two when I am paying for chickens that are advertised as pure. I am not someone who wants the best chickens so that I can gloat. I am not arrogant and not an idiot.


    AGAIN I AM NOT STUPID AND YOU MIS-READ MY TRUE INTENTIONS HERE....
     

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