Anyone know what strain Cackle Hatchery OEGs are?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ddroland, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. ddroland

    ddroland Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Kelso, Hatch, Sweater, Roundhead, etc, etc?
     
  2. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    Quote:Kelso, Hatch, Sweater, Roundhead etc are strains of American Gamefowl not L/F Old English.

    Chris
     
  3. ddroland

    ddroland Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Kelso, Hatch, Sweater, Roundhead etc are strains of American Gamefowl not L/F Old English.

    Chris

    Ahhh, what is the difference between American Games and OEGs? I thought they were pretty much the same thing. I am not so concerned with Breed Standards as Size, Station, and Personality. Every picture I have seen of Americans and OEGs it is impossible for me to tell the difference.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  4. aprophet

    aprophet Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Kelso, Hatch, Sweater, Roundhead etc are strains of American Gamefowl not L/F Old English.

    Chris

    Ahhh, what is the difference between American Games and OEGs? I thought they were pretty much the same thing. I am not so concerned with Breed Standards as Size, Station, and Personality. Every picture I have seen of Americans and OEGs it is impossible for me to tell the difference.

    Americans look taller and longer legged to me Oeg's look a little more compact
     
  5. RAREROO

    RAREROO Overrun With Chickens

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    In Cackles cataloge it says

    " Jeff Smith developed and improved on the 18 color varieties that we offer for sale with over 38 years of developement"

    So I guess they are Jeff Smith's lines if what they are saying is the truth.
     
  6. DTchickens

    DTchickens Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Kelso, Hatch, Sweater, Roundhead etc are strains of American Gamefowl not L/F Old English.

    Chris

    Ahhh, what is the difference between American Games and OEGs? I thought they were pretty much the same thing. I am not so concerned with Breed Standards as Size, Station, and Personality. Every picture I have seen of Americans and OEGs it is impossible for me to tell the difference.

    One difference could be that Old english are smaller birds, come only single combed, and in America ONLY come white legged (and black/blue for darker varieties, in other countries they may come yellow/blue/green/white). They were created in England "hence the name Old English", and actually have two different variations. You have the Oxford version, and the Carlisle. The Oxfords are more like our OEG in type, yet they're game. Once cockfighting was outlawed the created the Carlisle bird's and they are purely ornamental. They no longer have the fighting instincts, while people who wanted to preserve this characteristic like the American breeders for American game believing it is part of the breed's "type" they kept it in tact and breed the Oxford's.

    The Carlisle birds are kind of funny looking if you ask me, you can look them up on the web, I believe there are some on feathersite. Though the OEG in America look Oxford, they are mostly non-game- though I have heard of some that still have the gameness intact.

    American gamefowl were created in America, they're crosses of Old English, Irish gamefowl, and various Orientals with I'd say some having Spanish in them too.. Then you have lines like the Herman Pinnion yellow legged hatch which has a longtail due to the influence of China (Hainan) gamefowl. There is a article written on them in the breed index at the top. They're similar, but to an experienced person it is easier to tell, especially in the US since OEG's are only allowed to have white legs.

    People try to give the American game's a set standard lately I notice, which most of the time they do have a set look.. but they've only recently within the past few years become a ornamental breed, they weren't selected for looks so may take some time before they truly start having an "exact standard". There is a standard created by the American Gamefowl Society, but like someone else said, that standard is only the opinion of one breeder, and a standard should be decided upon by I believe the majority of the breeders. However, for now they still have some variations (thankfully).

    I wouldn't look into cackle if looking for good birds though. Their stock isn't game, which to me makes them cull's though I understand to some that can be a good thing. I am much like the breeders of the Oxford's, I believe it is part of their breed. Like I could call my Old English Bantam a Silkie, but would be laughed at because he doesn't have Silkie feathers. Another thing wrong with Cackle's OEG's I've heard they're commonly manfighters, also cull's in my book when you can find better fowl that are completely gentle.



    -Daniel
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  7. racuda

    racuda Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Very good post, Daniel.
     
  8. ddroland

    ddroland Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Ahhh, what is the difference between American Games and OEGs? I thought they were pretty much the same thing. I am not so concerned with Breed Standards as Size, Station, and Personality. Every picture I have seen of Americans and OEGs it is impossible for me to tell the difference.

    One difference could be that Old english are smaller birds, come only single combed, and in America ONLY come white legged (and black/blue for darker varieties, in other countries they may come yellow/blue/green/white). They were created in England "hence the name Old English", and actually have two different variations. You have the Oxford version, and the Carlisle. The Oxfords are more like our OEG in type, yet they're game. Once cockfighting was outlawed the created the Carlisle bird's and they are purely ornamental. They no longer have the fighting instincts, while people who wanted to preserve this characteristic like the American breeders for American game believing it is part of the breed's "type" they kept it in tact and breed the Oxford's.

    The Carlisle birds are kind of funny looking if you ask me, you can look them up on the web, I believe there are some on feathersite. Though the OEG in America look Oxford, they are mostly non-game- though I have heard of some that still have the gameness intact.

    American gamefowl were created in America, they're crosses of Old English, Irish gamefowl, and various Orientals with I'd say some having Spanish in them too.. Then you have lines like the Herman Pinnion yellow legged hatch which has a longtail due to the influence of China (Hainan) gamefowl. There is a article written on them in the breed index at the top. They're similar, but to an experienced person it is easier to tell, especially in the US since OEG's are only allowed to have white legs.

    People try to give the American game's a set standard lately I notice, which most of the time they do have a set look.. but they've only recently within the past few years become a ornamental breed, they weren't selected for looks so may take some time before they truly start having an "exact standard". There is a standard created by the American Gamefowl Society, but like someone else said, that standard is only the opinion of one breeder, and a standard should be decided upon by I believe the majority of the breeders. However, for now they still have some variations (thankfully).

    I wouldn't look into cackle if looking for good birds though. Their stock isn't game, which to me makes them cull's though I understand to some that can be a good thing. I am much like the breeders of the Oxford's, I believe it is part of their breed. Like I could call my Old English Bantam a Silkie, but would be laughed at because he doesn't have Silkie feathers. Another thing wrong with Cackle's OEG's I've heard they're commonly manfighters, also cull's in my book when you can find better fowl that are completely gentle.



    -Daniel

    Thanks Daniel for the informative post. I wanted Games and went into this somewhat blindly as there just is not much information available on the differences. I somewhat assumed that Games were Games, and unfortunately now have six stags, which, with the exception of one, are not very game. You live and you learn I guess and they will be culls. What is even more frustrating is there really is not a good source to purchase pure strain American Games. The American Game Fowl Association only lists one certified breeder in SC, which does me no good in PA. I would prefer to buy Brood Stock, that way knowing what I am getting and not having to wait 2 years to find out what I have. Most breeders I have found on the web do not seem all that trustworthy. If anyone has any input on where to go it would be much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  9. DTchickens

    DTchickens Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:One difference could be that Old english are smaller birds, come only single combed, and in America ONLY come white legged (and black/blue for darker varieties, in other countries they may come yellow/blue/green/white). They were created in England "hence the name Old English", and actually have two different variations. You have the Oxford version, and the Carlisle. The Oxfords are more like our OEG in type, yet they're game. Once cockfighting was outlawed the created the Carlisle bird's and they are purely ornamental. They no longer have the fighting instincts, while people who wanted to preserve this characteristic like the American breeders for American game believing it is part of the breed's "type" they kept it in tact and breed the Oxford's.

    The Carlisle birds are kind of funny looking if you ask me, you can look them up on the web, I believe there are some on feathersite. Though the OEG in America look Oxford, they are mostly non-game- though I have heard of some that still have the gameness intact.

    American gamefowl were created in America, they're crosses of Old English, Irish gamefowl, and various Orientals with I'd say some having Spanish in them too.. Then you have lines like the Herman Pinnion yellow legged hatch which has a longtail due to the influence of China (Hainan) gamefowl. There is a article written on them in the breed index at the top. They're similar, but to an experienced person it is easier to tell, especially in the US since OEG's are only allowed to have white legs.

    People try to give the American game's a set standard lately I notice, which most of the time they do have a set look.. but they've only recently within the past few years become a ornamental breed, they weren't selected for looks so may take some time before they truly start having an "exact standard". There is a standard created by the American Gamefowl Society, but like someone else said, that standard is only the opinion of one breeder, and a standard should be decided upon by I believe the majority of the breeders. However, for now they still have some variations (thankfully).

    I wouldn't look into cackle if looking for good birds though. Their stock isn't game, which to me makes them cull's though I understand to some that can be a good thing. I am much like the breeders of the Oxford's, I believe it is part of their breed. Like I could call my Old English Bantam a Silkie, but would be laughed at because he doesn't have Silkie feathers. Another thing wrong with Cackle's OEG's I've heard they're commonly manfighters, also cull's in my book when you can find better fowl that are completely gentle.



    -Daniel

    Thanks Daniel for the informative post. I wanted Games and went into this somewhat blindly as there just is not much information available on the differences. I somewhat assumed that Games were Games, and unfortunately now have six stags, which, with the exception of one, are not very game. You live and you learn I guess and they will be culls. What is even more frustrating is there really is not a good source to purchase pure strain American Games. The American Game Fowl Association only lists one certified breeder in SC, which does me no good in PA. I would prefer to buy Brood Stock, that way knowing what I am getting and not having to wait 2 years to find out what I have. Most breeders I have found on the web do not seem all that trustworthy. If anyone has any input on where to go it would be much appreciated.

    There are a lot of American gamefowl breeders, the trick is just finding them.. A lot of gamefowl owners don't exactly go public with their breeds, in all honesty some are a little paranoid. All someone has to do is just ride by, see some cock's on tie outs and immediately people will assume "He's a cockfighter!" just because they don't think on it. After that, one call to the officials and then you may have to deal with the Animal Control.. I know of at least one person that stopped raising the American's just because he didn't want to deal with it, even if it didn't happen there was "still that chance" so now he just breeds Orientals and non-game breeds because people do not exactly see the Oriental's as a "fighting bird" like the American's, the Oriental games are viewed more as an Exotic. Which is why you see a high rise in interest in them.

    Which you can say "If you do nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." BUT, the thing is it's not unheard of them just walking up on your yard, turning pens over and then killing anything that fights (which if you raise games, should be everything unless they're not mature enough yet), and then you get fined .. It's not common of course, but things like that do happen too often and people are stuck with large fines and possibly prison time even if they did NOTHING. Because to the general public, games are not like that by nature but are "taught". Not meaning to step out of the rules though for possible mods who maybe reading, just being straight up.

    But that shouldn't scare you away from the breeds, like I say- it isn't a common thing but has happened. The general public is becoming more aware, that is one reason I like to post on topics regarding games. Not only to offer information on games to people who don't have much knowledge of them, but to help the breed be understood better. I know, it would make me sick if I lost my yard like some people have because someone just "assumed".

    But to get back on topic, they're around. You may could find some in your local market bulletin, I know in MS they're commonly listed.. But then of course, you have to really judge the birds, they could be good stock or they could be junk still. But it is typically better than purchasing from flea markets or things like that..

    I can't think of a breeder in PA, but if I find someone will let ya know.. If you don't find some by spring, maybe I can slide some to you.. Will have to be shipped, but they're good stock. They will be out of the spangles on my website, if I get enough off. On my website there is a link to one forum you could ask around for sure, Prariefowl (Prariechiken here) is a breeder in Kansas with excellent stock, and is actually selling some birds now.. I don't believe they're all gone? Maybe look into contacting him, the birds would need to be shipped but I've dealt with him, and the birds are worth it.

    http://prairiefowl.webs.com/


    -Daniel
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  10. ddroland

    ddroland Chillin' With My Peeps

    106
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    Oct 15, 2010
    Eastern PA
    Quote:Thanks Daniel for the informative post. I wanted Games and went into this somewhat blindly as there just is not much information available on the differences. I somewhat assumed that Games were Games, and unfortunately now have six stags, which, with the exception of one, are not very game. You live and you learn I guess and they will be culls. What is even more frustrating is there really is not a good source to purchase pure strain American Games. The American Game Fowl Association only lists one certified breeder in SC, which does me no good in PA. I would prefer to buy Brood Stock, that way knowing what I am getting and not having to wait 2 years to find out what I have. Most breeders I have found on the web do not seem all that trustworthy. If anyone has any input on where to go it would be much appreciated.

    There are a lot of American gamefowl breeders, the trick is just finding them.. A lot of gamefowl owners don't exactly go public with their breeds, in all honesty some are a little paranoid. All someone has to do is just ride by, see some cock's on tie outs and immediately people will assume "He's a cockfighter!" just because they don't think on it. After that, one call to the officials and then you may have to deal with the Animal Control.. I know of at least one person that stopped raising the American's just because he didn't want to deal with it, even if it didn't happen there was "still that chance" so now he just breeds Orientals and non-game breeds because people do not exactly see the Oriental's as a "fighting bird" like the American's, the Oriental games are viewed more as an Exotic. Which is why you see a high rise in interest in them.

    Which you can say "If you do nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." BUT, the thing is it's not unheard of them just walking up on your yard, turning pens over and then killing anything that fights (which if you raise games, should be everything unless they're not mature enough yet), and then you get fined .. It's not common of course, but things like that do happen too often and people are stuck with large fines and possibly prison time even if they did NOTHING. Because to the general public, games are not like that by nature but are "taught". Not meaning to step out of the rules though for possible mods who maybe reading, just being straight up.

    But that shouldn't scare you away from the breeds, like I say- it isn't a common thing but has happened. The general public is becoming more aware, that is one reason I like to post on topics regarding games. Not only to offer information on games to people who don't have much knowledge of them, but to help the breed be understood better. I know, it would make me sick if I lost my yard like some people have because someone just "assumed".

    But to get back on topic, they're around. You may could find some in your local market bulletin, I know in MS they're commonly listed.. But then of course, you have to really judge the birds, they could be good stock or they could be junk still. But it is typically better than purchasing from flea markets or things like that..

    I can't think of a breeder in PA, but if I find someone will let ya know.. If you don't find some by spring, maybe I can slide some to you.. Will have to be shipped, but they're good stock. They will be out of the spangles on my website, if I get enough off. On my website there is a link to one forum you could ask around for sure, Prariefowl (Prariechiken here) is a breeder in Kansas with excellent stock, and is actually selling some birds now.. I don't believe they're all gone? Maybe look into contacting him, the birds would need to be shipped but I've dealt with him, and the birds are worth it.

    http://prairiefowl.webs.com/


    -Daniel

    You are a savior Daniel and it is good to know there is an American Game Resource on CT. I will check with Prairiechikin and if nothing will get back to you, paying shipping isn't a big deal at all. On a side note, about two years ago someone told me of a farmer who had some games wild on his farm. I was interested and got a bunch of chicks, five of which turned out to be stags. They were very game and once they hit that certain age were really starting to go after each other. One stood out above the rest in look and gameness so I kept him and culled the rest. After all this reading I firmly believe he has a lot of American in him, he's got good station, red eyes, walnut comb, and is the king of the barnyard. I feel he is a little short and heavy in the leg but overall a fine bird. So after all this I might have an American in my flock, I was even able to get a Wheaton Hen out of that group of chicks. However I have really fallen in love with this breed and would love to add some pure brood stock. Take a look and let me know what you think. He is a little light on front hackles after showing my 40 lb turkey a thing or two.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010

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