i was once recommended a product by a vet containing lidocaine for a pheasant. when i recommended it on here, just after joining; i was told it was toxic to birds. i can say the pheasant did die, but i am uncertain if it was the lidocaine or the injury. the symptoms were similar to what people claim on chickens, but i also was applying it directly to his skull. when i was corrected on that post, i just assumed they were right. i done some quick research and found several people who claimed the same thing. when giving advice i have always tried to mention not to use those products. recently casportpony mentioned that all animal grade penicillin has procaine in it. a blood stop powders contains benzocaine. we have used penicillin several times with no known side effects, other than potential resistance. i researched a little farther and did find that it seems its only topical products that cause the problems, but i couldnt find any real solid experiments/vetrinary papers on the topic. i have seen reports both ways from people who's information i trust. so im asking, is products containing -caine truly toxic - or was it something else in the products we may have used? is it only certain "-caines", or is it all of them? i invite any and all input on the subject, but solid documents would be nice.