Ayam Cemani breed

[Szollman]

I have the opportunity to purchase some Ayam Cemani chicks, and I wanted to get everyone's take on it. I've always read that these chickens are rare and expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayam_Cemani

They are supposed to be completely black inside and out, from their feathers and skin to their tongue and organs. Chicks are supposed to be going for $200 each, and I think a grown pair is in the thousands.



I am giving a rooster to someone tomorrow who claims he has two chicks of this breed, that he bought from someone a few hours away for $30 each. When I expressed interest, he sent me some pics. He then said he might be able to get 5 for $100, if I would take 2, he take 3, it would only be $20 each. I have no idea what I'm looking for to make sure these chicks are the real deal, but I would love to have some if they are! Anyone have any insight into this? Below are the pics he sent me. Thanks!

 

[drumstick diva]

When the price is too good to be true, I'd walk. Truly good quality birds don't sell for bargain prices. Especially ayam cemani

 

[Ravynscroft]

Hmmmm... that chick *looks* like an AC, but that is fairly cheap...

Also, please be aware that the prices you mention are from Greenfire Farms directly bought... and even their stock is not guaranteed 'pure, solid black'... this breed is a work in progress, and faults do show up... light colored mouths, white toe tips/full toes, white wing tips for example...

I'll tag a couple more people who have a LOT more practical knowledge than I do, since I've just started in this breed...

@Pyxis

@cjwaldon

 

[Pork Pie]

This thread may be useful to you - https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/862688/the-american-cemani-breeders-club-open-forum

 

[Pyxis]

Like Ravyn said, they LOOK like AC chicks, but the price is very cheap, so I'd be wary. The price being that low also speaks to the demand for them in your area - don't do this thinking you're going to turn around and breed them and make tons of money because if those are purebred ACs and they're selling that cheaply, that would speak to the market for them around you. Also, even if a chick looks very nice, you can't say for sure that it's not going to grow up to have a lot of color leakage or a red comb and wattles, etc.

 

[cjwaldon]

Those look like AC chicks to me. Mine still have quite a few flaws.

The market around me is deplorable. This past summer I was picking a few from each hatch to keep, culling about half, and selling the rest for $25 each. Even then I had a hard time selling them. 14 week old juveniles, culls for me, were $65. Buyers were welcome to inspect and select which chicks/juveniles they wanted. I openly disclosed that they were not purchasing cream of the crop, neither were they getting outright culls. What they were getting were chicks that could very well mature into nice breeder quality specimens, or could mature with flaws making them worthy only as additions to layer flocks. And I often pointed out the flaws with the juveniles. Some people are ok with minor flaws. Some people want to save money and take a chance on chicks to get their start. Your best bet, if you can afford it, is to purchase mature proven breeders And make your purchase in person so that you can see the birds before you take them home. Stay away from ads and auctions selling "breeder flock", you know, the ones where the birds are only a few weeks old but the sellers are advertising them as breeders. And I don't much care for sellers who add "rare" or "show quality" to everything they sell. Red flags if you ask me. Sellers who are open about quality of their stock, and provide photos of their breeders, those are more trustworthy IMO. Of course I've seen lots of sellers manipulate the system, say what you want to hear, steal photos off the internet, etc. I've fallen victim a few times myself unfortunately.

I posted this in another thread not long ago.

" . . . No need to pay big bucks if you don't care what the bird looks like. However, you like a certain breed because of it's very unique characteristics. If you go with the cheapest seller, especially a seller that will not provide photos of parent stock, not only will you likely get birds that don't possess those unique characteristics that attracted you to the breed to begin with, but you are supporting and encouraging those who's priority is mass production rather than quality production. And this goes for any breed, not just Ayam Cemani. If you don't care if a Silver Laced Wyandotte is actually laced or not, or if you don't care if a cochin has feathered legs, if you don't care if an Ameracauna has muffs, if you don't care if a Marans lays brown eggs . . . then purchase from a hatchery. Please don't support people who will end up destroying the breed because they are not even trying to maintain the characteristics that breed is known for. This is especially relevant with the more expensive breeds. The larger the price disparity between the best breeders and the cheapest breeders, the more likely you will end up with something that more or less does not represent that breed. For example, you like Ayam Cemani for their black combs. Are you still going to like your "Ayam Cemani" with pump round body, white earlobes, red shoulders, and bright red comb? You don't have to buy "show quality", you can still get nice yard birds without paying top dollar, but please don't support those who aren't the least bit interested in improving the breed, whichever breed you fancy."

I do believe what I said. Even though I do sell low, I believe I am the exception to the above post. I believe most people selling super cheap are only interested in the sale. But that's not to say all cheap sellers are discreditable. Just be wary. If it sound too good to be true, it probably is.

My birds are far from perfect. I only claim that buyers have the same opportunity I do of getting either culls or breeder quality from my eggs, and about the same chances from my chicks. Some chicks I have held back as "pick of the litter" turned out to be culls, while some chicks offered for sale as "second chancers" but which went unsold actually turned out to be the keepers. You just can't tell as chicks. Some chicks are definitely culls. One of my pet peeves is someone coming back to me months later complaining about quality of birds purchased as either hatching eggs or chicks. That's just where we are at with this breed. But we will get there, yes we will. Take your chances on chicks, or purchase adults.

So my advise here is, what are you looking for? Are you looking for really cool looking birds to add to your layer flock, "yard art" as some would say? Then those chicks are a steal. If you are interested in making money, the market is already flooded. Unless you are lucky and do get some good stock, or you pony up a lot of money to get those mature proven breeders, you're not going to make money selling AC chicks. And even if you end up with great breeders, you probably won't make any money. If you are interested in working with the breed, welcome aboard friend! If you opt to go with chicks, especially cheap chicks, hope for the best but expect the worst. And accept what you get, good or bad.

Out of curiosity, did you get pictures of the breeding flock those chicks are from?

 

[Szollman]

No, I only got the two pictures of the chicks, and this isn't the breeder. He just bought the chicks from someone else and I expressed interest. TBH, I didn't even know they were available in this area, I thought they were a super rare breed. Now that I know better, I will do more research. And I agree, I'm not in it for mass production, I think these chickens are really cool looking and want them because they are unique. I would definitely want a quality specimen - if I'm going to spend the money, might as well get the best I can.