Ayam Cemani questions

[cchicks4]

I’m not sure if this is a dumb question. Is there anyway to find out the bloodline of an Ayam Cemani rooster? I purchased a beautiful boy this week and the owner said he was not confident on the blood line. He appears to have all the characteristics of an Ayam Cemani with pure black tongue, legs, etc. ( will have to attach picture later ) I really don’t know much about this breed and the blood lines or what this means. I have read a few other forums on here about them but wondering if I could get some clarification. I am new to these fancier birds.

Last question, how are these guys with other roosters. My flock used to have 2 roosters who were best of friends. Unfortunately a wolf decided to take them both down. I can’t decide if I should keep one or two roosters if I only have 12 girls.

 

[dotporter]

It's funny, I was just reading about this last week.

The Ayam Cemani is not the only all black chicken. There is also the Swedish black. They are almost indistinguishable from one another. The Swedish black is a cheaper and more available bird.

The swedish black is smaller than the ayam cemani, from my understanding.

So, if someone says "I'm not sure of it's bloodllines", I would wonder if someone didn't cross a cheaper swedish to an ayam cemani? Not that it makes ANY sense to do that, since they are both pretty expensive birds.

But, if you spend four hundred dollars on a pure ayam cemani rooster and then only one hundred per hen for a bunch of swedish, and then sell all of the offspring as ayam cemani? Eh, people are weird.

JUST my opinion tho.

 

[cchicks4]

It's funny, I was just reading about this last week.

The Ayam Cemani is not the only all black chicken. There is also the Swedish black. They are almost indistinguishable from one another. The Swedish black is a cheaper and more available bird.

The swedish black is smaller than the ayam cemani, from my understanding.

So, if someone says "I'm not sure of it's bloodllines", I would wonder if someone didn't cross a cheaper swedish to an ayam cemani? Not that it makes ANY sense to do that, since they are both pretty expensive birds.

But, if you spend four hundred dollars on a pure ayam cemani rooster and then only one hundred per hen for a bunch of swedish, and then sell all of the offspring as ayam cemani? Eh, people are weird.

JUST my opinion tho.

Oh that’s interesting I hadn’t heard of that breed. How much do you think he would be worth? He is a year old. It’s weird because I see some as cheap as $50 and others that are high hundreds. The range seems very large.

 

[dotporter]

I'm not actually a big chicken person myself. However, I do know that in Ayam Cemani chickens, part of the increase in price has to do with the perfection of the bird. Perfection being form, size, and color. Not all pure black birds come out pure black as the wattles can come out a deep purple rather than black.

I also suspect that there are unscrupulous breeders passing off other breeds of black chicken as the far rarer Ayam Cemani.

However, price is highly variable anyways.

https://featherloverfarms.com/collections/frontpage/products/greenfire-farms-ayam-cemani-chicks

They apparently have ayam cemani on sale right now for under fourty dollars. But, are they reputable or trustworthy? I don't know.

They say greenfire farms line. Greenfire farms is the farm which imported the original birds. Yet, I tend to question any "too good to be true" sales and claims. But it might be true and worth the investment.

In general, a cross between an ayam cemani and a swedish can be sold for around fifty dollars. But, it's all highly dependent on supply and demand.

 

[Pyxis]

I've raised ACs for five years. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them

Price has come down on the breed since a lot of people bought them and started pumping them out, without doing a lot of culling, so you can get a lot of variance in quality. Some are really bad, some are great.

If he didn't know the bloodlines, he really may just not have asked. If he only wanted them for pets and yard candy, he just might not have cared.

Also, at what point do the bloodlines not matter any more? I've had mine for five years. Most of my original stock were from TMA, with a little GFF as well, but with five years of work they're very different from when I first got them. So are they really those bloodlines any longer, or would they be "Pyxis" lines at this point?

Maybe the seller can point you to the person that he bought them from and you might be able to contact them and ask.

https://featherloverfarms.com/collections/frontpage/products/greenfire-farms-ayam-cemani-chicks

They apparently have ayam cemani on sale right now for under fourty dollars. But, are they reputable or trustworthy? I don't know.

They are not. I could post some threads and info on that, but they really, really are not, lol.

 

[nicalandia]

At one point I was trying to recreate the breed using Leghorns and Silkies, it would be rather easy to do with enough knowledge

 

[dotporter]

At one point I was trying to recreate the breed using Leghorns and Silkies, it would be rather easy to do with enough knowledge

Unfortunately it isn't possible to "create" an ayam cemani. The black pigmentation isn't like in other poultry. It's a genetic hyperpigmentation which affects everything. The bird even has black meat and, if I'm not mistaken, Bones!

 

[The Moonshiner]

Unfortunately it isn't possible to "create" an ayam cemani. The black pigmentation isn't like in other poultry. It's a genetic hyperpigmentation which affects everything. The bird even has black meat and, if I'm not mistaken, Bones!

Silkies are the same thing.
Black meat, bones, organs, etc.
AC are just black feathered while silkies come in many colors.
That's why I never understood the AC hype. Black silkies have everything the ACs have plus the silkie feathers and have been around forever.

 

[nicalandia]

AC are just black feathered while silkies come in many colors.
That's why I never understood the AC hype. Black silkies have everything the ACs have plus the silkie feathers and have been around forever.

I agree, AC were overhyped and many people drunk the koolaid

Their genetic make up is quite simple.

Solid black based on Extended Black or Birchen(E/E or ER/ER)
Sex linked dermal enhancer id+/id+
Autosomal Hyper pigmentation Fibromelanotic(Fm/Fm)
other dermal and epidermal enhancers like mulberry face(found on a few breeds like Sumatras)

am I missing anything else?

 

[dotporter]

They do look neat. But so do a lot of other chickens that don't cost a couple thousand dollars.

And I agree that with enough knowledge you could make an all black bird. But, AC are from the Indonesian jungle fowl. So, it wouldn't really BE an ayam cemani, any more than a Swedish black is an AC. But, ok, you COULD make an all black bird.