Ayam cemani rooster 9 mo paralyzed...

[ErnieBerley]

I woke up one morning and my Ayam cemani rooster (9 months old) named Ayam, was stumbling and his comb which is usually jet black was pale. So, the vet thinks it's Marek's, but this is the 6th day and he still has spunk (he's a very strong guy), eats well (on his belly), drinks (when I hold the water to him) and crows some (it sounds sick however). I have given him a hundred thousand units of Penicillin IM for a couple days just in case this is bacterial toxin.

He was perfectly healthy until I let the flock out to forage in the woods (i live in western NC n mountains). I thought a saw a red berry in his mouth (we have holly berries out now), but not sure. The next day he was paralyzed.

Since it's not progressing, does this sound like Marek's? I am thinking about euthanizing him, but wanted to give him a fighting chance. I've had to quarantine him today in a separate pen as the other roosters are now wanting to fight with him.

If anyone has experience , please help. I want him to be happy, so crawling around on his belly I dont this is a way he would want to live. HAPPY HOLIDAYs....

 

[azygous]

He is the right age for Marek's to manifest itself. Even if it is Marek's, he may not get any sicker than the lame legs. Not all chickens die immediately from it.

Holly berries won't kill chickens. But he could have picked up something else that is toxic such as contaminated grit from machinery leaking fluids onto the soil.

If he hasn't responded to the antibiotics, this may be a neurological issue. I would continue the antibiotic so he's had it for at least seven days. And add vitamin E 400iu and B-complex to his treatment. These are regular people vitamins and can be found at any pharmacy vitamin aisle. Treat once a day delivering the pills directly into his beak so he gets the full dose. Try giving him some boiled egg and other protein treats to get his energy level back up. Sometimes that helps resolve lameness that is caused by weakness from poor appetite.

 

[ErnieBerley]

Thanks... would a fungal infection cause lameness? like maybe I should also give him fluconazole 50mg daily couple days? thanks

 

[azygous]

Consuming mold will cause paralysis. A fungal infection would likely not do this.

Try to stick with the present treatment until you've seen there's no improvement before jumping to another treatment. Nothing will work if you don't give the treatment long enough to make a difference. An antibiotic should be given for at least one week unless it's otherwise specified.

The E and B vitamins can often repair neurological damage if administered soon enough, though. Also, poor appetite during molt can lead to starvation which can produce these symptoms. So the vitamins and extra protein foods can often produce very dramatics results. Sometimes meds aren't needed, just the right nutrition.

 

[ErnieBerley]

Consuming mold will cause paralysis. A fungal infection would likely not do this.

Try to stick with the present treatment until you've seen there's no improvement before jumping to another treatment. Nothing will work if you don't give the treatment long enough to make a difference. An antibiotic should be given for at least one week unless it's otherwise specified.

The E and B vitamins can often repair neurological damage if administered soon enough, though. Also, poor appetite during molt can lead to starvation which can produce these symptoms. So the vitamins and extra protein foods can often produce very dramatics results. Sometimes meds aren't needed, just the right nutrition.

I hear ya.... his diet is excellent. Scratch and Peck feeds (layer right now) and also I give them organic seeds and fresh organic veggies - shiitake, cabbages, cauliflower, cilantro, kale, carrots, squashes, blueberries, raspberries, few apples sometimes, etc... so their diet is healthy.

 

[azygous]

That diet would be very healthy for a human, but it appears to be light on the protein chickens need.

Layer feed has too much calcium and usually not enough protein for a rooster and other non-laying chickens. Look at the ingredients and see if the protein content is at least 20%. Even if it is this high, if you feed too many other foods that lack balanced protein, those foods dilute the amount of protein he should get from his feed.

Trying the vitamins and extra protein foods is not harmful, and it just might be what he needs to make this lameness better.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Since it's not progressing, does this sound like Marek's? I am thinking about euthanizing him, but wanted to give him a fighting chance. I've had to quarantine him today in a separate pen as the other roosters are now wanting to fight with him.

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

Sorry you face this.

It does sound very much like Marek's to me. Was he vaccinated?

I hear ya.... his diet is excellent. Scratch and Peck feeds (layer right now)

Roosters don't need the excess calcium in layer feed. It *can* contribute to gout or even kidney failure, most often in birds genetically predisposed somehow. If you're gonna keep roosters long term, especially valuable ones... I would consider feeding something other than layer. Also if that is a pretty whole feed and not the pelleted type it can allow birds to pick out their favorite bits... possibly leading to malnutrition... not what I suspect according to description.

Sounds like all your "healthy" veggies and fruits could even be reducing protein.

I personally would dispatch AND send the body to your state vet for necropsy to confirm if you are indeed dealing with Marek's or not. Links to help..
How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy

State poultry labs...

Rollins Diagnostic Laboratory North Carolina Department of Agriculture 2101 Blue Ridge Rd Raleigh, North Carolina 27607-6432 Phone: 919-733-3986

Also, I see you're in NC from your post.. Adding that to your profile will help folks make their best suggestion at a glance.

Hang in there.

 

[ErnieBerley]

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

Sorry you face this.

It does sound very much like Marek's to me. Was he vaccinated?


Roosters don't need the excess calcium in layer feed. It *can* contribute to gout or even kidney failure, most often in birds genetically predisposed somehow. If you're gonna keep roosters long term, especially valuable ones... I would consider feeding something other than layer. Also if that is a pretty whole feed and not the pelleted type it can allow birds to pick out their favorite bits... possibly leading to malnutrition... not what I suspect according to description.

Sounds like all your "healthy" veggies and fruits could even be reducing protein.

I personally would dispatch AND send the body to your state vet for necropsy to confirm if you are indeed dealing with Marek's or not. Links to help..
How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy

State poultry labs...

Rollins Diagnostic Laboratory North Carolina Department of Agriculture 2101 Blue Ridge Rd Raleigh, North Carolina 27607-6432 Phone: 919-733-3986

Also, I see you're in NC from your post.. Adding that to your profile will help folks make their best suggestion at a glance.

Hang in there.

I doubt he was vaccinated for Marek's. I got him off the internet/craigslist where a local guy had all male Ayam cemani for sale (nobody knew this at the time so we all got bombarded with male Ayam). I got 3 chicks and 1 immediately expired. The other 2 did well, I gave one rooster away at 8 months and kept 1. HOWEVEr, I purchased 4 white silkies also off craigslist and all of them died with paralysis, so i'm sure they had mareks. ugh...!! I'm new at this and didn't realize how exposing my flock to craigslist chickens where the owners don't vaccinate can really be devastating.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm new at this and didn't realize how exposing my flock to craigslist chickens where the owners don't vaccinate can really be devastating.

In fact... Marek's vaccinated birds NOT welcome here as it JUST hides the disease and stops the tumors from forming that cause the paralysis... but allows the virus to spread and proliferate undetected.

Those Silkies could have possibly even gotten the Marek's after coming to your house if that's what it was. It does sound like they could have been the source, but without testing hard to say. It takes at LEAST 3 week before any symptoms appear. Silkies are known to be "more" susceptible to Marek's. Many things can mimic Marek's, testing is the only way to know for sure.

If you get a necropsy showing it's Marek's... then you may consider only bringing in vaccinated bird in the future if you can't accept the loss.

Since I breed my birds... there was one gene identified that gives Marek's resistance. I breed for disease resistance. So while I don't KNOW if I have that gene in my flock... watch me try!

For future reference... NEVER bring ANY bird home that has been to someone else's pasture. Even quarantine may not be enough to protect your flock. Also NEVER bring home broody hatched chicks.

Stick with incubator hatched chicks or hatching eggs, preferably from NPIP sources. Some things can pass through to the embryo but Marek's is not one of them.

Best resource I've seen on Marek's..
Marek's Virus FAQ

ETA: I used to breed Silkies. About 2 years later and several counties over, 1 buyer had Marek's hit her flock. It took out her hatchery birds first and a couple of the Silkies she got from me. Other Silkies from my stock held strong and she sold them off.

 

[ErnieBerley]

That diet would be very healthy for a human, but it appears to be light on the protein chickens need.

Layer feed has too much calcium and usually not enough protein for a rooster and other non-laying chickens. Look at the ingredients and see if the protein content is at least 20%. Even if it is this high, if you feed too many other foods that lack balanced protein, those foods dilute the amount of protein he should get from his feed.

Trying the vitamins and extra protein foods is not harmful, and it just might be what he needs to make this lameness better.

Great advice thank you..... He might just be picking out the low protein grains ( he was raised on 20% protein + eggs occasionally ) but I stopped this 2 months ago, long enough for him to become deficient. THANKS