Backcrossing F1 OE to brown egg parent

pinewoodacres

In the Brooder
Oct 2, 2021
3
3
14
North Central Florida
I have F1 Welsummer x Cream Legbar olive eggers and my goal is olive eggers that breed true (among other things).

I know I need to cross to a Legbar again to pick up the other blue egg gene, but my understanding is that will more or less dilute the brown egg coloring...if the charts going around are accurate and I'll get more like a mint green out of it.

If I cross to a Welsummer again (it would actually be F1 x Welsummer), will that actually do anything for the brown color if I will have to still cross again to a Legbar after that? It will set me back probably a year as far as the other attributes I'm going for, so I only want to do it if the offspring will retain more or darker brown genes.

Thanks for any insight!
 

roonster

Songster
5 Years
Jun 20, 2016
129
149
151
I have F1 Welsummer x Cream Legbar olive eggers and my goal is olive eggers that breed true (among other things).

I know I need to cross to a Legbar again to pick up the other blue egg gene, but my understanding is that will more or less dilute the brown egg coloring...if the charts going around are accurate and I'll get more like a mint green out of it.

If I cross to a Welsummer again (it would actually be F1 x Welsummer), will that actually do anything for the brown color if I will have to still cross again to a Legbar after that? It will set me back probably a year as far as the other attributes I'm going for, so I only want to do it if the offspring will retain more or darker brown genes.

Thanks for any insight!
you will likely get more brown egg layers, you wont know until they start laying. egg color is not all-or-none and there seems to be gene modifiers that are highly variable...some easter eggers and olive eggers come with an asterisk *may occasionally have brown egg layer, or similar.
 

The Moonshiner

Legendary Leghorns
Premium Feather Member
5 Years
Nov 17, 2016
12,346
74,191
991
Missouri
It's a damned if I do or damned if I don't situation.
Yes breeding back to welsummers will darken the green. Breeding back to the CCL will probably lighten it.
That's the rub. You need to go both direction and whichever you chose is at the expensive of the other.
I've done the same project and imo the blue egg genes are more important and more of a pita.
IMO It's best to chase getting both blue egg genes first. Test breed to make sure and when you have those breed those birds together and select the darkest egg layers and keep going forward.
Also IMO those charts mostly suck.
 

pinewoodacres

In the Brooder
Oct 2, 2021
3
3
14
North Central Florida
It's a damned if I do or damned if I don't situation.
Yes breeding back to welsummers will darken the green. Breeding back to the CCL will probably lighten it.
That's the rub. You need to go both direction and whichever you chose is at the expensive of the other.
I've done the same project and imo the blue egg genes are more important and more of a pita.
IMO It's best to chase getting both blue egg genes first. Test breed to make sure and when you have those breed those birds together and select the darkest egg layers and keep going forward.
Also IMO those charts mostly suck.
This was my original line of thinking. I’ll probably just stick with that and see how it goes. If I did cross back to the Welsummers, I would only use females with the egg color I’m wanting and then cross those with a Legbar roo. Not wanting to waste time with the unknowns of the roos of that cross!

I also will - at some point - do the DNA testing for homozygous blue, it’s just a matter of picking when makes the most sense. I figure feed costs and time spent are more than the cost of testing.
 

pinewoodacres

In the Brooder
Oct 2, 2021
3
3
14
North Central Florida
you will likely get more brown egg layers, you wont know until they start laying. egg color is not all-or-none and there seems to be gene modifiers that are highly variable...some easter eggers and olive eggers come with an asterisk *may occasionally have brown egg layer, or similar.
Right, they are just selling F2s in that case most likely (as far as olive eggers). I know once the brown is there, it’s hard to get it back out, but I wasn’t sure if they might pick up more of those modifiers or if it would somehow set them better to backcross. I don’t understand the genetics of the brown as well since there are so many genes at play so figured I’d ask people who have more experience!
 

roonster

Songster
5 Years
Jun 20, 2016
129
149
151
Right, they are just selling F2s in that case most likely (as far as olive eggers). I know once the brown is there, it’s hard to get it back out, but I wasn’t sure if they might pick up more of those modifiers or if it would somehow set them better to backcross. I don’t understand the genetics of the brown as well since there are so many genes at play so figured I’d ask people who have more experience!
eggsactly, but it is F1`s. there is no way to predict crossing over during meiosis, that affects gene enhancers and protein expression when brown is present.
 

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