Bantam Speckled Sussex

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by 6th_Happiness, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. 6th_Happiness

    6th_Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I hope this is the right place to ask, I wasn't sure where to.

    I have and love large speckled sussex... and I ONCE several years ago, was given a male BANTAM speckled sussex (but no female to pair him with). I have looked since then, and cannot find speckled sussex in the bantam size.

    Anyone know where to find them?

    Alternatively, how would you go about creating it? I understand the genetics of the colour pattern, but I'm not sure what bantam breeds would be best to use... and can be found. The genetics seem to be spread pretty far and wide in the bantam breeds... eg a Mille Fleur d'uccle bantam is not the right body type and will introduce feathered feet and so on... and I still need to find the mahogany factor... maybe from a bantam red cochin or bantam RIR....?
     
  2. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    Yup. The top strain of Bantam Speckled Sussex is Skytop . Skytop was created by melding the Mongold and the Overton strains. All three are top show quality strains. All three creators of the strains became APA Master Breeders of the variety. Skytop strain can be found at painted feathers Farm in Ohio and at Skytop in Florida and maybe other places.
    If you are researching Bantam Speckled Sussex and it doesn't say one of these three strains close up in the pedigree, keep on looking. There are so few Bantam Speckled Sussex out there, even if you just want them for pets, please buy a top strain and help conserve the quality .
    Speckled Sussex is the most difficult color to breed in the Sussex breed .this is because it's a tri color pattern . it takes many generations and wise selection to stabilize the gene pool to the point that the pattern reproduces itself reliably from one generation to the next.
    "" do not ** cross strains if you found a bantam speckled Sussex flock of either large or Bantam . I cannot stress this strongly enough. it will destabilize your gene pool and you will lose your pretty color pattern. It will take years to get it back again.
    buy all your birds from the same strain and tell the breeder you want to line breed them . there's plenty of diversity and they can help you put together a breeding program so that you don't need to strain-cross. So you don't lose the beauty that enthralled you with this Variety in the first place.
    Have a good day!
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  3. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    See post 3233 of the BYC Thread
    : Bantam speckled Sussex?? :
    For breeder info on this variety.

    Google images for:
    Skytop Bantam Speckled Sussex
    to see pictures of their beautiful birds.
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  4. 6th_Happiness

    6th_Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    well, I wasted $70 something on some eggs from source with recommendations...

    Although well packed, I got one smashed egg, I put the rest in separate incubators, and under a broody hen - on day before 'lock down', two were dark but not well formed so I will be surprised if they hatch. ONE has clear veining, that I am really hoping makes it, another is iffy. The rest are all clear- either not fertilised or never viable from day one. I cracked one open just to check- just looked like goop- not even a rudimentary blood spot) UPDATE: nope, not a SINGLE one hatched! Not ONE!

    What a RIP OFF! I've been hatching eggs for almost 20 years. I've had 90+% success rates from so-called 'barnyard mix' and those with pure breeds that were 'just for fun' and not for show or anything.

    I know there are always risks with shipping eggs and chicks, but I expect better than this- especially when you are paying $70+. If the people who charge $10/dozen can manage to send me undamaged eggs and the majority of them hatch, why can't someone who is supposed to be 'recommended' and dealing with a rare variety that needs to get better spread out to avoid loosing it? I know I would feel like a thief selling duds for that much and then wiping my hands clean because with the USPS, 'hey its a risk'.

    Definitely not wasting my money this way again.

    Looks like I'm back to square one- finding easier to find bantams with the right genetics and re-creating the bantam variety from scratch. It will certainly be more fun, and the ones not up to par can be placed as pets or used as pet food. Eleven rotten eggs are useless even for that.

    :mad:
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  5. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    This is not the first instance that I have seen of speckled Sussex eggs really really poor hatch. I think part of it is the very small inbred pool of bantam speckled Sussex in the United States. there are really only three strains. Overton,Mongold, and Skytop
    Skytop is made out of Overton and Mongold. I think that may be part of your problem at this point .I think Skytop is the Premiere strain right now.
    If I was starting in Bantam Speckled Sussex right now ,I would only do it one of two ways. either buy retiring breeder Birds from one of the three strains... or buy started birds at least 12 weeks old preferably 18 weeks old . this is a tri-colored variety and culls for color much later than the other color varieties of Sussex .
    It takes many ,many years to stabilize the Speckled Sussex gene pool so that it reliably reproduces the speckleds in correct ratios over multiple Generations.
    still your best bet is to try to find some retiring breeder birds or some started Birds.
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  6. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    I don't know where you got your eggs from, but if this was me and I had this problem here is what I would do. I would go to Skytop and buy started birds or retiring breeders. they in Florida.
    then I would go to Painted Feathers farms in Ohio and buy a couple of hens to cross to your Skytop cockerel. that's what I would do
    the breeding would be either an older cock from Skytop to a pullet from Painted FeaThers Farms or a hen from Painted Feathets Farms to a Cockerel for Skytop.
    I don't know who all the other Speckled Sussex breeders are, but I know these two people. and if it was me that's what I would do . I would also consider crossing Skytop with Peggy Taylor's BSS in Texas.
    Best,
    Karen
     
  7. 6th_Happiness

    6th_Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Update if not seen- NONE of the banties hatched. not one. So I'm back to where I began, but out $70 (which is A LOT for someone unemployed on disability. that's my 'luxury' for the year, and it was wasted as far as I'm concerned.) I can't afford to go shipping started/adult birds from out of state. And if I did that instead of buy eggs, I'd only have been able to afford what... one or two birds maybe? Not a good start for foundation of a new population. With eggs, I'd have hoped more to have hatched, giving me more variability to strat with.

    I breed LF speckled sussex, so I know how the selection goes with the tricolours.

    If this is true (and inbreeding depression can do that), then 'recreating' the breed with new gwnetics*IS* something that IMHO should be tried. Continuing to inbreed from an already damaged gene pool won't improve things- it will only get worse. Genetic variability is essential for good, strong, genetic health. Recreation isn't easy I know, but can be done, and if the breed is that poor off, it is important some people start working on this. They may not win shows right away, but you have to look a the long term- preserving the breed, improving it, and eventually, with crosses to the existing lines, the new blood will get up to the show standards/quality. just need the determination to do it.
     
  8. 6th_Happiness

    6th_Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I wasted the money already on eggs. I am unemployed and disabled. I can't afford to ship adult birds at this point. Sure can't afford to travel in person from Chicago. And if I did that to start with, instead of buy eggs, I'd get what for $70? one or two chickens? Not a good genetic start for a new population.

    No, lt looks like starting from scratch is the best bet IMHO. May take longer, but if the breed is this poor off genetically, it NEEDS new blood. Continuing to inbreed from an already depressed population will only make the situation worse in the future.
     
  9. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    Cross your speckled your Bantam speckled Sussex cock with a bantam show quality Rhode Island Ted and and go from there.
     
  10. 6th_Happiness

    6th_Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I dont have any bantam speckled sussex.
     

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