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Barn is done..framing and wiring questions.

Discussion in 'Coop & Run - Design, Construction, & Maintenance' started by RockyToggRanch, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. RockyToggRanch

    RockyToggRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 22, 2008
    Upstate NY
    My barn is almost completetly enclosed. It's getting late and I need to get the coop framed up quickly. I had the barn built by horse farmers, but I will do the interior myself. I don't know a lot about construction, but am willing to give it a shot. I have several questions and google is getting me no where. First of all, the barn is 30x30 with stalls on one side, a 10' aisle and then a 10'x30' space that will be a tack room, coop and goat bunk house. It's a pole barn.

    FLOOR
    I want a floor in the coop and tack room. I think I want pressure treated 2x6 for joists, right? Can I attach them to the 2x4's that are there for the siding boards or should I run a "ledger board" like a deck and attach with joist hangers? 24" on center for joists? If I run a ledger, do I run it along the inside of the 6" posts? If yes, what do I do with the 6" space between where the floor stops and the wall is?

    Walls
    Should I add some insulation to this wood siding? Foam board type or fiberglass? If so, should I use some sort of moisture barrier? If yes, what? 2x4 untreated is okay for studs? 16" on center? Or 24?
    The hay mow and rest of the barn will not be insulated.

    Electric
    The house has 200amp box the garage has 2 ,50 amp breakers in the house box and has it's own box. There are two blank spaces in the house box, none in the garage. Can I run power from the house to a new box in the barn? How can I tell what size box the house can handle? I'd like to do as much as possible myself and get an electrician to come and make the final connections.

    There is not much here for zoning. When I tried to get a building permit I was told it was easier to give me an agricultural exemption than to drive out here. I appreciate any advice you can give.

    Thanks,
    Cindy
     
  2. LynneP

    LynneP Chillin' With My Peeps

    For instructions on insulating please check our home page below. We're thrilled with the results. Remember to include vapor seal *and* tuck tape.

    Can't help you with the framing without a pic, though we decided on 16" centers. Our floor is planks over concrete (modified horse stall) and is easy to maintain with food-grade DE and 'Stable Boy' in the wood shavings we use for bedding. Consider carefully sheathing the underside of your coop with hardware cloth since you're building from scratch, this will prevent rodent invasion.

    Are you doing electrical or do you have an electrician? Hubby can do modifications to electrical but you may have zoning regs and insurance probs without an electrician. Worth every penny![​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
  3. patandchickens

    patandchickens Flock Mistress

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    Apr 20, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Quote:I would suggest raising it up so that the UNDERSIDES of the joists are at least a foot off the ground, possibly higher. Reason being, things WILL get under there and set up housekeeping and/or die, and you WILL sometimes need to go in after 'em, and you do NOT want to be trying to retrieve a skunk carcass from a 6" high space [​IMG] Also the larger space makes it harder for small rodents to set up permanent shop.

    I think I want pressure treated 2x6 for joists, right?

    In a humid ground-level space like that I would use pressure treated, yes. For a ten foot span I am not sure whether 2x8 might give you a better (less bouncy, more durable) floor -- find someone more knowledgeable than me to ask [​IMG]

    Can I attach them to the 2x4's that are there for the siding boards or should I run a "ledger board" like a deck and attach with joist hangers? 24" on center for joists? If I run a ledger, do I run it along the inside of the 6" posts? If yes, what do I do with the 6" space between where the floor stops and the wall is?

    Your 'ledger board' arrangement (attached to the poles, not to the wall, and you would have to look up what a suitable dimension of lumber would be) sounds fine to me; galvanized joist hangars and 24" centers. If you are not planning on having a proper double wall (with or without insulation), as I guess you aren't since the last question has arisen, then you can just fill that space in with either of several arrangements (it isn't going to have to support much of any load) and run yer plywood flooring over it, cutting out for the posts or poles at the corners of the room.

    Should I add some insulation to this wood siding? Foam board type or fiberglass? If so, should I use some sort of moisture barrier? If yes, what? 2x4 untreated is okay for studs? 16" on center? Or 24?

    It's up to you whether you want to insulate. Fiberglas or any other type of batts will become an ineradicable mouse farm. Rigid foamboard is more mouse resistant. However be aware that in case of fire it emits very toxic fumes (I mention this only b/c you talk about horse stalls in the barn) which is a bit of a downside. I would not worry about moisture barrier for an unheated tackroom, personally, and frankly me I wouldn't do it for a coop either. Untreated 2x4s is indeed what you want for studs; I would use 24" o.c. unless there was a compelling reason to do otherwise (these are just nonloadbearing divider walls, and it's a barn).

    All's I can tell you about the electric is that I know that just cuz there's empty spaces in the breaker box does not necessarily mean there is room for additional load. I am sure others here can give better advice on that.

    BTW, if you are having mud problems in your paddocks, I cannot too strongly recommend (this is personal experience talking here [​IMG]) that NOW, while the ground is still SLIGHTLY more solid than it will be in springtime, you get a load of roadbase or other cheap gravelly product delivered if at all possible without the delivery truck getting permanently stuck in the mud, so that you can build a raised area around your run-in shed if any or if you have no shed then build an 'island' at and just inside your gateway. BELIEVE me you will not regret it! If your paddock is wet now, just wait til spring thaw and a couple good inches of rain... [​IMG] (Been there, done that, don't ask [​IMG])

    Good luck and have fun,

    Pat​
     
  4. RockyToggRanch

    RockyToggRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 22, 2008
    Upstate NY
    Thank you Pat. You say it's a downside to have the horses and chickens in the same barn? I wondered why I don't hear of that more often. I always hear of seperate coops. Why is that?

    My paddock is a mess because this barn build that was supposed to take 10 days in August is now 30 days in October and the 2 horses are stuck in their run in paddock area since it snowed 2 feet this week. It's a melty mess like spring. You're right though, I need a few truck loads of gravel around the run in. We just brought in 20 or so for the barn area. We live on a hill, too. Go figure. At this stage, I can do whatever I want for the coop. My husband says a dirt floor would be better. Maybe he's right. At least nothing could die under it?
     
  5. RockyToggRanch

    RockyToggRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 22, 2008
    Upstate NY
    Okay, I just re-read your post and perhaps you mean that the fumes are the downside and not the horses nearby?
    The horse stalls have dutch doors to the outside and they are very rarely shut into their stalls. Only in the worst of storms.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  6. patandchickens

    patandchickens Flock Mistress

    12,521
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    Apr 20, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I meant that fumes from rigid foamboard insulation, if there's a fire, will cause serious harm to horses. (Chickens too, but let's face it, in a chicken coop, if there's a fire you're prolly losing your chickens one way or the other).

    I'm not aware of any special problems of having a chicken coop partitioned off in part of a horse barn AS LONG AS you have good ventilation for the chickens and none of your horses have heaves or allergy problems. (Or if they're virtually never in the barn, like mine [​IMG])

    A dirt floor for the coop would certainly be *faster* [​IMG] and you could always build a raised wooden floor later if you wanted to. You might bury some galvanized hardwarecloth a foot or two deep all around the edge, or some big patio pavers up on edge; then rake the floor smooth and mix in a sack or two of cement mix, rake it good to mix together with the top few inches of soil (wear a dust mask and goggles!) then mist with water from a hose. You will end up with something that isn't really a poured cement floor but is a lot harder and more dig-resistant (remember chickens dig too!) than just a plain dirt floor.

    Living on a hill -- yeah, water can do funny things, can't it. I used to board at a barn that spanned from the top to the bottom of a good-sized hillside, and the most intractably muddy part was just about at the TOP of the hill, go figure [​IMG]

    Have fun,

    Pat
     
  7. ChickenTender63

    ChickenTender63 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sep 28, 2008
    Alamance, NC
    if you could post some interior pictures of your barn, then I can help answer framing questions.

    Also please take a pic of your service panel and I can help you there also. I am a licesened electrician, although not in NY, but can probly still help you through the dilema, but I really need to know what your working with first. How big is your current house? How old is it? How many breakers are in the garage panel that are being fed off the 50 amp breakers in the main? etc, etc.

    Sometimes it is just easier and better to install a new "farm pod" which would be a new meter socket with a seperate service panel for the barn. The last several I put in were in rural areas with out local permit process's required and then the power company just comes and hooks it up once the service panel is in place. This would be the safest route. You then wouldn't need to worry about running short of power in the house and start overloading anything.
     
  8. RockyToggRanch

    RockyToggRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 22, 2008
    Upstate NY
    I will definately get some pictures in the morning. Our home is 20 yrs old and is a log home. It has been very well cared for and was totally updated 3 yrs ago before we bought it. I'd like to have 10 light fixtures in the barn (including 1 outside) and outlets for
    de-icers for both horses a goat room and coop. Also a small fridge in the tack room. I don't plan to use any other power tools out there. I'll get pix in a.m.

    Cindy
     
  9. ChickenTender63

    ChickenTender63 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sep 28, 2008
    Alamance, NC
    Quote:Sounds like you will be much better off going with a seperate service panel and meter for the barn. How many sq. ft. is the house and how many bedrooms so I can figure load?
     
  10. RockyToggRanch

    RockyToggRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 22, 2008
    Upstate NY
    The house is 2700 sq. ft. including the finished basement. There are four bedrooms, but my youngest is away at college, so the upstairs is rarely used. All apliances are electric. Heat and hot water are oil. There's an outdoor outlet that was used for a pool, but the pool is gone. I'm hoping to run power from it to my run in shed nearby, for one outlet and two lights.

    Wouldn't a seperate meter be expensive?
     

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