Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Tailfeathers]

ANOTHER SILVER CULLING QUESTION

You know those little leg feathers that pop up on the cockerels now and then? Do you cull that bird even if he has the best silver color?

Donna

According to an article in the Poultry Press by Kenny Troiano last July/August time frame, feathers on the legs in a dominant trait. I can't speak to Silver-Laced Barnies as I know nothing about breeding them but, personally speaking, I would never breed a bird with feathered shanks or stubs in any of my clean-legged breeds.

And, for what it's worth, after linebreeding and maintaining a closed flock for over five years, I actually had feathered shanks show up in a couple chicks this year in one of my breeds and had the same thing happen last year in another one of my breeds.

God Bless,

 

[cvandermerwe]

Sorry I cant help with your questions. They are great birds, but Is someone eating their tails?

lol...yes, in a way. Unfortunately they have to share their space with 27 guineas (everybody free ranges) and I've seen the guineas pick on them a little. I'm hoping to get them into their own 16 x 20 room this long weekend, right now they are in two 12 x 12 attached rooms that has access to our 10 acres (the guineas cover about 40 acres during the day, we live in the country). The guineas are out most of the day but when they come in I've seen them give the barnies a bit of a hard time. They are so meek and mild and the guineas are real honery this time of year. I'll keep an eye on them to make sure it doesn't go beyond some back feathers however.

 

[pinkchick]

That is a great chart.  I saved it for future conversations with questions about the B/B/S breedings!

That B/B/S chart will work with any Chicken breed - Blue (Bl) is a dominant gene.  If it doesn't express, it isn't there. 

The recessive gene that changes chickens to Self Blue is called Lavender (lav).  It is recessive, requires two copies to express and you can have split to lav.  The lav gene would also mess with the Red as well as the Black - I'm not sure it is something you would want to bring into red laced birds..

2 copies of the Lavender gene will not allow any secondary pattern genes to show, creating a solid colored bird.
Blue will not, blue allows the secondary pattern gene to express......however, when 2 copies of the blue gene are present (as in Splash) it can (but does not always) lighten secondary color patterns.

 

[sherpagirl]

I love this chart, what is it's source? I'd love to make a good print of it (well, I guess I need to fix my printer first!)

And I have a BLUE question:

How are the blacks that come out of the blue crossings within a blue flock? Like splash x blue OR black x blue? I mean is their lacing and color as nice as blacks that come out of a black only flock?

Also:

Is there a picture of a splash hen somewhere? I'm really curious to see what she looks like?


Thanks,
Donna

 

[pinkchick]

According to an article in the Poultry Press by Kenny Troiano last July/August time frame, feathers on the legs in a dominant trait.  I can't speak to Silver-Laced Barnies as I know nothing about breeding them but, personally speaking, I would never breed a bird with feathered shanks or stubs in any of my clean-legged breeds. 

And, for what it's worth, after linebreeding and maintaining a closed flock for over five years, I actually had feathered shanks show up in a couple chicks this year in one of my breeds and had the same thing happen last year in another one of my breeds.

God Bless,

I had feather stubs show up on 2 males that I hatched out on 2 different occassions out of eggs that I got from Johan a few years ago. A 3rd feather stubbed male hatched out of eggs that I sent to Happy Chooks a couple years ago.

That was the only 3 times that they appeared in my Barnies.....I did not use the ones that I hatched out and I know that Kelly did not use hers. The stubs will breed forward.

However, that said and I know I am going to get some guff for this, but, if you do not have any other options and need to use the male for better silver coloring......I would use him to better the silver and cull any offspring showing stubs and keep the best clean legged silver laced offspring, even if they are not perfect in the silver dept...but are an improvement from the previous generations silver.
Not all of the chicks are going to get the stubs.

There are 3 genes that control leg feathering or the lack of it. 2 genes are dominant and they control amount and type of leg feathering that a bird will get......the other gene is a recessive gene for clean legs.

It takes 2 copies of the recessive gene to create a clean legged bird....for example, if you have a 2 birds that both show stubs or feathers on the legs and you cross them to each other and get chicks that are clean legged, you know that both parent birds each carry one copy of the recessive gene. Keeping the best of these chicks that are clean legged for your next generation are one way to control the stubs in future generations. Any stubbed chicks will be culls and not used for the breeding pen.
You can breed the clean legged chicks back to their parents and know that since they and their parents all carry that recessive gene that you will get clean legs. Keep notes and records of which birds produce what and you can avoid the stubs in the future.

 

[sherpagirl]

I had feather stubs show up on 2 males that I hatched out on 2 different occassions out of eggs that I got from Johan a few years ago. A 3rd feather stubbed male hatched out of eggs that I sent to Happy Chooks a couple years ago.

That was the only 3 times that they appeared in my Barnies.....I did not use the ones that I hatched out and I know that Kelly did not use hers. The stubs will breed forward.

However, that said and I know I am going to get some guff for this, but, if you do not have any other options and need to use the male for better silver coloring......I would use him to better the silver and cull any offspring showing stubs and keep the best clean legged silver laced offspring, even if they are not perfect in the silver dept...but are an improvement from the previous generations silver.
Not all of the chicks are going to get the stubs.

There are 3 genes that control leg feathering or the lack of it. 2 genes are dominant and they control amount and type of leg feathering that a bird will get......the other gene is a recessive gene for clean legs.

It takes 2 copies of the recessive gene to create a clean legged bird....for example, if you have a 2 birds that both show stubs or feathers on the legs and you cross them to each other and get chicks that are clean legged, you know that both parent birds each carry one copy of the recessive gene. Keeping the best of these chicks that are clean legged for your next generation are one way to control the stubs in future generations. Any stubbed chicks will be culls and not used for the breeding pen.
You can breed the clean legged chicks back to their parents and know that since they and their parents all carry that recessive gene that you will get clean legs. Keep notes and records of which birds produce what and you can avoid the stubs in the future.

Yes, I have a heavy influence of Johans in my flock, many pure and I do think this is where it came from. I never keep roos with a shank feather no matter how small, and I've never seen it on a female. It just so happened that it showed up on the two of the most silvery looking cockerels ( at least from what I can see at 5 weeks) so, then I got a little hesitant to cull them.

Thanks for the info!

 

[tls_ranch]

I love this chart, what is it's source? I'd love to make a good print of it (well, I guess I need to fix my printer first!) And I have a BLUE question: How are the blacks that come out of the blue crossings within a blue flock? Like splash x blue OR black x blue? I mean is their lacing and color as nice as blacks that come out of a black only flock? Also: Is there a picture of a splash hen somewhere? I'm really curious to see what she looks like? Thanks, Donna

The lacing has been pretty nice in blacks resulting from the blue project when crossing black to blue and blue to blue. I find it hard to tell them from pure barnies unless I check their bands. But, this year I will be in the 6 th and possibly 7th generation. If I hatch more out this fall. I will see if I can find the link to the Dutch and German sites that I saw some splash barnie pics and just about all the other colors too. I posted them a few months go on this thread. Trisha

 

[Helen in the Desert]

I had feather stubs show up on 2 males that I hatched out on 2 different occassions out of eggs that I got from Johan a few years ago. A 3rd feather stubbed male hatched out of eggs that I sent to Happy Chooks a couple years ago.

That was the only 3 times that they appeared in my Barnies.....I did not use the ones that I hatched out and I know that Kelly did not use hers. The stubs will breed forward.

However, that said and I know I am going to get some guff for this, but, if you do not have any other options and need to use the male for better silver coloring......I would use him to better the silver and cull any offspring showing stubs and keep the best clean legged silver laced offspring, even if they are not perfect in the silver dept...but are an improvement from the previous generations silver.
Not all of the chicks are going to get the stubs.

There are 3 genes that control leg feathering or the lack of it. 2 genes are dominant and they control amount and type of leg feathering that a bird will get......the other gene is a recessive gene for clean legs.

It takes 2 copies of the recessive gene to create a clean legged bird....for example, if you have a 2 birds that both show stubs or feathers on the legs and you cross them to each other and get chicks that are clean legged, you know that both parent birds each carry one copy of the recessive gene. Keeping the best of these chicks that are clean legged for your next generation are one way to control the stubs in future generations. Any stubbed chicks will be culls and not used for the breeding pen.
You can breed the clean legged chicks back to their parents and know that since they and their parents all carry that recessive gene that you will get clean legs. Keep notes and records of which birds produce what and you can avoid the stubs in the future.

Can I copy and repost this on the Brahma thread? There was a question a couple of weeks back and no one there knew the genetics

 

[pinkchick]

Can I copy and repost this on the Brahma thread? There was a question a couple of weeks back and no one there knew the genetics

Yes, but please read more about shank and toe feathering genetics to be sure that I said it all correctly. I can get things mixed from time to time.

Here is something that were just discussing over in the Blue Copper Marans thread about the dominant shank feathering genes and clean legs. I know it does not pertain to Barnevelders, but since the discussion of the feather stubs came up, I think it might be ok.

One of the easier things with Marans in my opinion. Get yourself a rooster that has great shank and outer toe feathering and maybe even if he has a couple no-no feather stubs on the middle toe and cross him over your best feathered females.......or visa versa...find a female with the good shank and outer toe feathering and maybe even a couple no-no feather stubs on the middle toe.

In my personal experience with clean legged or lightly feathered birds......you have to have atleast one of the parent birds that has great shank and outer toe feathering. It can take alot of test mating and crosses to improve the leg feathering but it can be done.
It is very important to have the good feathering to start out working with even if it is just one bird.


3 genes are involved in leg feathering, 2 dominant and 1 recessive. The 2 dominant genes control the amount and type of shank feathering they get....such as one of the dominant genes produces Langshan shank and toe feathering and the other Brahma shank and toe feathering and the recessive gene is for clean legs.

When 2 birds (even if they have fully feathered shanks and outer toes) are crossed and a clean legged bird is produced in the offspring, both parent birds each carry one copy of the recessive gene. This does not mean that the parent bird is not useable just understand that every now and then you will get a clean legged bird when crossing these 2 particular parent birds together, they will also produce feather shanked birds.....just remember that they (the offspring) get that one copy of the recessive gene no matter what. Keeping notes on who you breed to who and what they produce will help you know who carries what so that you can avoid those crosses later and hopefully avoid getting birds that have the issues you are trying to get away from.

Try not to cross birds together that both have an issue. For example, if you cross a rooster that has only 2 shank feathers on each leg to a pullet that has 4 feathers on one shank and 3 feathers on the other shank or she has just same as the rooster......you will get offspring that mimick their parents.
On the other hand....if you take that same pullet from above and cross her to a rooster that has GREAT shank and outer toe feathering........you will get some chicks with good feathering or better feathering, you will also get some chicks that have the crappy crap that you are trying to work away from.




Hope others come by to give you their advise and or opinions about how they breed for it.

Here is a link to some leg fand foot feathering genetics. Scroll through until you come to the section on foot feathering. Not much on there but explains the different in types. Brahma vs. Langshan

www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html


Later when time allows I can find you some more links to good materials on leg feathering.

 

[BantamCastle]

Here is a question for all of you Barnie breeders out there who are able to pick up on the slightest characteristics in your birds which has improved the breed so much the last 5 years.

This year I seem to have an unbundance of Roos. I really want to promote good lacing and all of my bird came from respectably well laced hens. Is there any tips or tricks to pick out a rooster who will promote good lacing? i.e. lacing on the neck, saddle, or on adolescent wing or tail feathers, etc.?

~Al