BCM x CCL ?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ALChickGal, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. ALChickGal

    ALChickGal Out Of The Brooder

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    Hi! I have crossed a Blue French Copper Marans Roo with pretty Crested Cream Legbar hens. Will my hens look like the female, crested and colored? I'd love to know the genetics of this cross to know what to expect-- and to, hopefully, sex as soon as possible. I'm also curious as to what egg color then hens might lay. Olive? They are 7 weeks old, so I've been looking at the feathering to guess. There is no "copper" coloring yet. Thanks for your help!
     
  2. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    I don’t have a good handle on Cream Legbar genetics. I know they are barred and I think they are gold, the barring dilutes the red to make more of a cream color, but I’m not sure. I don’t know what else is there. The BCM should be Birchen, which is fairly dominant and contains black, so you probably will get chicks with a fair amount of black or blue.

    You have a way to tell sex. The barring in the CLB hen and no barring in the BCM means any barred chick is a male and any not-barred chick is female. I don’t know how well the head spot would show up on those chicks at hatch, but if you look at their darker feathers you should be able to see barring on the males by now.

    About half the chicks should show blue, half black. A Blue Copper Marans has one B/B/S gene and one that is not-B/B/S. That gene is passed down at random so each chick has a 50-50 chance of having either one. That does not mean half the chicks will be Blue, that depends on the odds. But if you hatch enough you should have some of each. Blue only acts on feathers that would normally be black. It does not affect red or white feathers.

    The CLB hen has two copies of the blue egg shell gene, so all pullets should lay colored eggs. Not all Marans have the genetics for really dark eggs and the CLB hen has no genetics for dark eggs (See next paragraph for a qualification, there is always an exception in chicken genetics). There are a lot of different genes that control just how dark the eggs are, some dominant, some recessive, and some that only act if something else is present. What shade of green the eggs will be depends on how those genes go together. In general, if the BCM rooster hatched from a dark egg you can expect to see fairly dark green eggs, but sometimes you get some real surprises.

    Another complicating factor is that CLB hens do not have to lay blue eggs, green is also allowed. The latest I heard the CLB is not a recognized breed in the USA but at least one group working to get them recognized are suggesting both blue and green eggs be allowed. So if your CLB hen is laying green eggs instead of blue, your odds of darker eggs go up.

    With egg shell color you basically have to wait and see. And different pullets from the same parents will often lay eggs with different shades of green. It just depends on how those random genes go together.
     
  3. ALChickGal

    ALChickGal Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you so much! It will be like Christmas waiting and hoping, I suppose. :) These are showing barring on the feathers and pretty little crests already. One, though, is black with a beautiful crest. I do hope it is a pullet! My CCL girls lay beautiful blue eggs. The BCM did hatch from a chocolate egg, so perhaps the crossed hens will lay a dark olive. I have 3 girls who were crosses of my BCM roo and a pretty Blue Ameraucana. You're right they are 3 different shades of green. Thanks for your thorough explanation of the genetics!!
     
  4. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    Close. You got so very close. LOL.
    Cream Legbars have the cream dilute, which affects the gold base color, but it's recessive. The chicks will be sexlinked, due to the barring gene. And the birchen pattern is dominant, the chicks should hatch out either blue or black. The head spot, indicating the presence of the barring gene, should be easily visible on the male chicks. The females should look similar to Black or Blue Copper Marans hens, once mature. All the males will be barred. The white skin is dominant, as are the crests.
    Shell color genes can be fairly complicated. You most likely will have shades of green, but there are no guarantees.
     
  5. ALChickGal

    ALChickGal Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you so much! I'm really interested in learning more about the genetics. I'm definitely going to do more reading. One more question- or clarification, please. Are you saying that if these have a barring pattern that they are most likely cockerels? The feathers are nice and rounded, so I guessed them to be pullets (or maybe that is wishin' and hopin' ). Thanks, again, for the wonderful information!! Christmas Blessings to you all!
     
  6. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    Thanks, June. I’d read somewhere that the cream coloring was from the barring but I’ve had red barred chickens before, they certainly were not cream colored. I don’t know if I’ll remember that, my memory isn’t what I thought it once was, but I do appreciate the information. I did remember this is your expertise.

    ALChickGal you might read the first post in this thread. It explains the genetics of sex links. That’s what you have, a version of Black Sex Links. This can be kind of confusing for a while but if you study it something generally clicks and the basics are easy. The details can still be mind-blowing but at least the basics are easy.

    Tadkerson’s Sex Link Thread
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208

    The way it works is that the barred gene is sex linked. If a rooster has that barred gene at both locations at his gene pair, he will give a copy to all his offspring. But if he does not have it, like your BCM, he will not give it to any of his offspring. He cannot give what he doesn’t have.

    A hen like your CLB does not have a pair of genes at that location on the DNA. She just has one copy which she gives to her boys but she does not give anything to her girls. Since the barring is dominant it will show up in all the boys from that cross and none of the girls. So yes, any barred chicks from that cross are males. Any not barred are females.
     
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  7. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    A barred hen can only pass their barring to their male offspring. Since the rooster is not barred, the barred chicks must have gotten it from the hens. Therefore, they must be male. Male specific feathering doesn't begin to develop until about 10 weeks of age, and can take several more weeks to be really visible.
     
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  8. ALChickGal

    ALChickGal Out Of The Brooder

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    Thanks Ridgerunner and Junebuggena!! What great info! Now, I am going to check my chicks a bit closer with a better informed eye. :) I am fascinated by all of this --- and love it. I sure hope that black chick w/ crest is a pullet! I think she'll be a beaut. Thanks, again, for taking the time to explain and share with me. Blessings!
     

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