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Black Copper Marans bloodlines

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by everythingjane, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. everythingjane

    everythingjane Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 8, 2009
    Northern Indiana
    I read somewhere in the enormous Marans pics thread that certain Copper Marans bloodlines don't work well together.. Could anyone further explain?

    I have Black Copper and Blue Copper chicks from Jeane and Krebs lines.. I'm not sure what lines are compatible with these or if I need to stick to the lines I have?
    Does anyone have info on Copper Marans from the Ray (Florida) line? There are some from this line I could drive to pick up if they would work with mine...

    Thanks!
     
  2. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Mar 31, 2008
    Lebanon, TN
    If you figure this one out, let us all know! [​IMG]
     
  3. monarc23

    monarc23 Coturnix Obsessed

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    Jul 18, 2008
    Indiana, Pennsylvania
    the valentine line? I have one from them. Its a pullet, her egg was a 5, she looks okay but my chicks from a completely different line (not from any known line that i know of) look a lot better body structure wise and came from dark dark eggs. I am not going to say anything public about lines that I've heard, but I would do some research first about any line you're considering [​IMG]
     
  4. cottagegarden

    cottagegarden Eggistentialist

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    everythingjane, I have those lines as well and the Valentine Line would not be my first choice to add additional stock. Although I know how tempting it can be if they are local, but (and Im not being as PC as Monarch23) but you probably have better options.
    What are you looking for in your new birds, just additional ones or looking to improve on what you have in some way?
     
  5. Crunchie

    Crunchie Brook Valley Farm

    Mar 1, 2007
    Maryland
    It's my understanding that linebreeding is beneficial to keeping and improving egg color. Even if you cross two lines with great egg color, you could still lose egg color in the resulting generations. So my guess (and it really is a guess, a genetics wiz I am not [​IMG]) is, it isn't so much that different lines aren't compatible, it's more that more ground is gained by keeping a closed gene pool.

    I'm not adding any more blood to my flock of Cuckoos. Last year I added 2 roosters from a breeder whose lines were half of the start of my original trio. That's it. I'll let you know how it goes in, oh, 5 to 10 years. [​IMG]

    If you have what you want, or can see getting what you want out of the birds you have--I say stick to what you have and breed up from there.
     
  6. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

    Jun 1, 2008
    Maine
    you eventually have to choose a line to bring in at some point. I have birds(not marans) that have been linebred too long and it is getting obvious. Many are missing nails(hatched that way) and I am trying to figure out if there are any other problems, I am already working on bringing in some new blood. There were a couple of threads with the webbed and fused toes
    (marans), my guess would be too much line breeding. It is a wonderful thing when done properly, but IMO it can be overdone. I remember one thread that was mentioned on the MCC that a person was concerned about crossing his Jeane birds with the Davis birds, Bev told him to go for it(pretty much, can't remember her exact words). You never know what genes the birds you have possess until you try them out.....
    This whole thing is trial and error, but if I had to bring in new lines I would see where my birds need improvement and go from there...
    Good luck [​IMG]
     
  7. Dread Pirate Roberts

    Dread Pirate Roberts Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jan 20, 2009
    NorCal
    I've got high hopes for the Bill Brasky line. [​IMG]
     
  8. Crunchie

    Crunchie Brook Valley Farm

    Mar 1, 2007
    Maryland
    Quote:Well that woul definitely be the other side to it... [​IMG] I had that problem with my LF Polish. I definitely did have to have add new blood, you are right, too much is too much.... I was going with the assumption that new blood isn't needed in this case. I find that people think that you can't ever breed related birds, that you have to start out with several different lines...which isn't necessarily the shortest distance between point A and point B (not that it's a race, but you get what I'm saying).
     
  9. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

    Jun 1, 2008
    Maine
    Quote:yes, I get it [​IMG]
    In my opinion, I think the OP should breed the birds they have and see where improvement can be made and make the choice then.
    The problem with bringing too many different lines in it makes it difficult to figure out who has what faults etc....
     
  10. everythingjane

    everythingjane Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 8, 2009
    Northern Indiana
    Right now I'm looking to add to my little flock since I only have 2 pullets (and 3 roosters)... I don't think I'll know quite what needs improvement until they get older. They are 7 weeks old. I guess I'm a little lost as far as resources to find out everything I want to know...
    I'm thinking it would be so helpful if those of us who are new to the breed/variety to know what the flaws were in certain lines so that we could know what to look for when considering line compatibility... Perfection is not possible, so I hope that no one would be insulted if a flaw is pointed out in their bloodline.. I did a search and I understand what you guys are saying about the bloodline I was asking about.. Thanks for the heads up [​IMG]
    It is interesting how certain lines can be incompatible for specific traits... I've run into this with the sheep that I raise.. I've been breeding for spots, as have several of my past buyers.. Spots are supposed to be recessive, but we have found that sometimes with two spotted parents, certain lines just don't want to make spots with each other. [​IMG] Other lines will produce wild spotting when neither parent is spotted (especially when they have some shared ancestry).
    For me, the linebreeding idea is a little puzzling with chickens because there isn't the amount of control in breeding.. Since we don't pedigree chickens, we can't really tell how closely related our lines are.. When you have similar genes it means that both the desirable and undesirable traits can be magnified.. The undesirable traits aren't created by linebreeding or inbreeding- they are there to begin with... Close breeding only magnifies the chance that they will occur. On one hand, it's fast way to find out if there are serious genetic flaws in a line, on the other, maybe we don't want to know that bad in the first place [​IMG]

    I'm now thinking that I should have gotten at least another pair when I picked up my started chicks (5 weeks old).. Now that I've been paying attention to prices, I've noticed day olds for the same price! I was afraid I'd have too many roosters because he wanted to sell them in pairs.. but I've since realized that if I buy eggs I might not get a better ratio than that.... Hindsight is always 20/20 [​IMG]

    although... I literally had no more cash on me.... [​IMG]

    (sorry about the monster post... too much thinking today!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009

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