Blue drake over Chocolate duck?

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by aineheartsyou, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. aineheartsyou

    aineheartsyou Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I am thinkin about how I want to split up my ducks next spring for breeding. I am trying to get my Ancona genetics straight. Black is dominant, chocolate is a recessive, blue is a recessive, silver is a double blue recessive and lavender is a double blue and chocolate recessive? Do I have this right? If i have a blue drake over a chocolate duck can I get lavender?
     
  2. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Blue is not recessive -- it is incompletely dominant. This means having one copy of the gene alters appearance in a black duck/drake to make it look blue, while having two copies makes it look silver.

    If chocolate works the same in Mallard-derived breeds as it does in Muscovies (I'm not sure...and I'm not near my references at the moment), it is sex-linked recessive. This means that drakes can have no copies, one copy, or two copies of the gene, while ducks can have either one or none. If people give the name "lavender" to birds that are blue-chocolate, that's confusing...in other birds, "lavender" is a recessive form of blue, unrelated to the B/B/S and without the chocolate gene. But, whatever you want to call it, I'll proceed with how to get Blue-Chocolate Anconas.


    Blue Drake X Chocolate Duck = 25% Blue Drakes split to Chocolate, 25% Black Drakes split to Chocolate, 25% Blue Ducks (no chocolate gene), 25% Black Ducks (no chocolate gene).



    If you want to get birds that are Blue and Chocolate, you'll have to cross the offspring together.


    Black Drake split to Chocolate X Blue Duck = 12.5% Blue Drake split to Chocolate, 12.5% Blue Drake (no chocolate gene), 12/5% Black Drake split to Chocolate, 12/5% Black Drake (no chocolate gene), 12.5% Blue-Chocolate Duck (=Lavender), 12.5% Blue Duck (no chocolate gene), 12.5% Chocolate Duck, 12.5% Black Duck

    If both parents were Blue, you'd have half the number of Blacks, with the other half being Silver (plus whatever else they carry or show above).


    [​IMG]


    ETA -- I looked it up...Chocolate is sex-linked recessive in Mallard-derived breeds as well, so I'm going to delete what I calculated if it was autosomal recessive to avoid confusion.

    [​IMG]

    OK, I bolded your first Blue-Chocolate Anconas -- they will be in the F2 from your breeder birds, and they will all be female. To get a male, you'll have to breed one of your Black split to Chocolate Drakes from your F1 to a Blue-Chocolate Duck. If you do this, you'll get 1/4 of the offspring being Blue-Chocolate, in both sexes.

    If you started your F1 X F1 by using Blue for both parents instead of Blue X Black, then you'll have some Silver-Chocolate Ducks coming out in your F2's. If you breed a Black split to Chocolate Drake from your F1 to a Silver-Chocolate Duck, then half the offspring will be Blue-Chocolate, and the other half will be Blue split to Chocolate (equal chances for both sexes).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  3. aineheartsyou

    aineheartsyou Chillin' With My Peeps

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  4. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Yes....which says the same thing I said...Chocolate is sex-linked recessive.

    [​IMG]

    Then I look further...and there seems to be either a misuse of the terms of color (as compared to where I looked it up), or someone decided to make up his own terms.....

    Other references I see show "Blue" to be inherited the same way as it is in chickens -- incomplete dominant. Two copies of the Blue gene gives Silver.

    Lavender is the term used to describe birds that are genetically Blue-Chocolate (which is unfortunate, because in Muscovies and chickens, "Lavender" is used to describe the autosomal recessive dilution also called "Self-Blue", caused by one gene, not a combination of two different genes).

    Anyway...if your goal is to produce birds that are Blue-Chocolate (which you call Lavender), you won't get them in your F1 with the breeder birds you mentioned (unless...your Drake is split to Chocolate and you don't know it).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  5. aineheartsyou

    aineheartsyou Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ok, so this is what I am thinking. I am keeping a blue male, a lavender male and a chocolate male and all of the females (1 blue, 1 black, 3 chocolate and 1 that is all white, so I dont know her true color). I was going to split them up into trios come spring. I was thinking I would have a chocolate and the blue female in with the blue drake, a chocolate and the white female with the lavender drake and a chocolate and the black female with the chocolate drake. What do you think?
     
  6. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Well, what is your goal? Are you trying to make more Blue-Chocolates (=Lavenders)? If you have the birds you mentioned in this post (I thought you didn't have anything but the Blue male you mentioned earlier), then this is what you can get from all possibilities (I'm ignoring the white female since I don't know what color she is under the white genes).

    Blue Male X Blue Female = 25% Black, 50% Blue, 25% Silver, both sexes

    Blue Male X Black Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes

    Blue Male X Chocolate Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes, but males will also be split to Chocolate...females can't be split to Chocolate

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Blue Female = 12.5% Black Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 12.5% Silver Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Silver-Chocolate (is there another name for this?) Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Black Female = 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Chocolate Female = 50% Chocolate, 50% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender), both sexes

    Chocolate Male X Blue Female = 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female

    Chocolate Male X Black Female = 50% Black Male split to Chocolate, 50% Chocolate Female

    Chocolate Male X Chocolate Female = 100% Chocolate, both sexes

    [​IMG]
     
  7. aineheartsyou

    aineheartsyou Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks so much for that! I guess I am trying to figure out which combos will give me the most variety of colors. I am most interested in the blues, silvers and lavenders

    Quote:Well, what is your goal? Are you trying to make more Blue-Chocolates (=Lavenders)? If you have the birds you mentioned in this post (I thought you didn't have anything but the Blue male you mentioned earlier), then this is what you can get from all possibilities (I'm ignoring the white female since I don't know what color she is under the white genes).

    Blue Male X Blue Female = 25% Black, 50% Blue, 25% Silver, both sexes

    Blue Male X Black Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes

    Blue Male X Chocolate Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes, but males will also be split to Chocolate...females can't be split to Chocolate

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Blue Female = 12.5% Black Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 12.5% Silver Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Silver-Chocolate (is there another name for this?) Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Black Female = 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Chocolate Female = 50% Chocolate, 50% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender), both sexes

    Chocolate Male X Blue Female = 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female

    Chocolate Male X Black Female = 50% Black Male split to Chocolate, 50% Chocolate Female

    Chocolate Male X Chocolate Female = 100% Chocolate, both sexes

    [​IMG]
     
  8. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oh, btw, I looked up information in my Storey's Guide to Ducks by Dave Holderread when I got home last night (I was messaging from campus and didn't have the book on me). The information I posted is correct -- Blue is Incomplete Dominant, Chocolate is Sex-Linked Recessive. Also, it's true that the Blue-Chocolate combination is often called "Lavender", and the name given for Silver-Chocolate is "Lilac." The difference between the two is whether there is one or two copies of the Blue gene -- one copy gives Blue-Chocolate ("Lavender") and two copies gives Silver-Chocolate ("Lilac").

    [​IMG]

    Quote:Well, what is your goal? Are you trying to make more Blue-Chocolates (=Lavenders)? If you have the birds you mentioned in this post (I thought you didn't have anything but the Blue male you mentioned earlier), then this is what you can get from all possibilities (I'm ignoring the white female since I don't know what color she is under the white genes).

    Blue Male X Blue Female = 25% Black, 50% Blue, 25% Silver, both sexes

    Blue Male X Black Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes

    Blue Male X Chocolate Female = 50% Black, 50% Blue, both sexes, but males will also be split to Chocolate...females can't be split to Chocolate

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Blue Female = 12.5% Black Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 12.5% Silver Male split to Chocolate, 12.5% Silver-Chocolate (is there another name for this?) Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Black Female = 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female, 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female

    Blue-Chocolate Male (=Lavender) X Chocolate Female = 50% Chocolate, 50% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender), both sexes

    Chocolate Male X Blue Female = 25% Black Male split to Chocolate, 25% Blue Male split to Chocolate, 25% Chocolate Female, 25% Blue-Chocolate (=Lavender) Female

    Chocolate Male X Black Female = 50% Black Male split to Chocolate, 50% Chocolate Female

    Chocolate Male X Chocolate Female = 100% Chocolate, both sexes

    [​IMG]
     
  9. aineheartsyou

    aineheartsyou Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thank you! I need to get my copy back from my neighbor [​IMG] she was suppose to bring it back when she was done reading it. I think I am going to put my black girl and a chocolate girl with my blue boy, blue girl and a chocolate girl with my lavender boy and the white girl and a chocolate girl with my chocolate boy [​IMG]
    Quote:
     
  10. DUCKGIRL89

    DUCKGIRL89 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This is all very confusing to me, lol. And I dont get much of it, [​IMG] lol. I ave a question... Say I had a blue drake, and a black hen. What would I get from that?
     

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