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Blue vs. Black Swedes

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by Kelsey2017, May 10, 2011.

  1. Kelsey2017

    Kelsey2017 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jan 30, 2011
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    I just realized that in my replies that I said I have blue swedes. I wrote in my signature line that I have black swedes, which is what color they are are but they were sold to me as blue. I know that you get black and blue colors from the blues when you breed them but the lady didn't have a single blue colored duck on her property. I wasn't going for SOP when I bought them but I would like to figure it out. Will I maybe get some blues from their babies?
    The lady I bought them from had both swedish looking ducks and rouens and insisted they were called "Blue SUEDES" and then proceeded to tell me that you will get all colors, including rouen colored ducks with the white bibs. Obviously she didn't have a grasp on genetics (or who was mating with who) but it was a good start for me to get young adult ducks for $5 each that were just beginning to lay. I do however want to have ducks that will eventually look more like the SOP for swedes. My two ducks look very close to the pictures you see in hatchery catalogs just a little too much white on their heads but my drake is not even close, he is mostly white with black (greenish) spots and orange and black feet and bill. He is really cute though, and very sweet to the ducks. Maybe he is the 'splash' color that I hear you get sometimes?
    What would you call them other then mixed up? [​IMG] Maybe it is not that important but, I do love the blue colored birds and hope that some of my babies will turn out to be blue. I think I should just call them black and then see what I get. Sorry if these are dumb questions!
     
  2. 70%cocoa

    70%cocoa Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Canberra, Australia
    If you mate black to black you will only get black. No blue.

    If the lady's Swedish ducks (and therefore perhaps yours) were not pure for a gene called Extended Black then you could get Rouen coloured offspring from Swedish to Swedish matings. Extended Black is dominant, so you only need one dose to make black (although Swedish should have two doses, one from each parent). If two Swedish mate and they only have one dose then other recessive genes will be likely to appear in the offspring. Bibs are dominant so they are likely to stick around.

    All Swedish should have two doses of Extended Black, regardless if they are Black, Blue or Splash. Another gene entirely acts on top of the Extended Black and makes them go Blue or Splash - the Blue Dilution gene. No doses of this = Black. One dose = Blue. Two doses = Splash. Your black birds have no doses of Blue Dilution and so are not capable of producing Blue offspring. BUT if you got a Splash drake or duck and mated them to your Black you'd get 100% Blue offspring as all of them will have one dose of Blue Dilution only.

    If you get a Splash bird get a really good quality one (like from someone with Holderreads' line) to be sure they also have two doses of Extended Black to make sure you will not get unwanted patterns (mallard/Rouen pattern) appearing in the offspring.

    You say though that you are unsure of whether one bird is Black or Splash. If you put up a pic that'd be great [​IMG] If this one is Splash and you mate to Black you will get Blue (but if both have only one dose of the Extended Black you could get allsorts as well).
     
  3. Oregon Blues

    Oregon Blues Overrun With Chickens

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    Apr 14, 2011
    Central Oregon
    I suspect that your ducks aren't purebred Swedish. The Swedes and the Rouens were probably mixed together.

    You need a blue duck to breed to your black ducks in order to get blue. Holderread does not have or sell Swedish ducks.

    Splash is white (or very pale silver) with pale silver spots. Yours doesn't sound like a splash to me.

    If you like the Blue Swedes, I suggest that you love and enjoy the ducks that you have and, in addition, buy yourself a pair or trio of show quality purebred Swedish ducks. Then keep your purebreds separated during breeding season so they will hatch purebred ducklings.

    You are not going to get to birds that look like the photos of the fancy Blue Swedish on the show websites from where you are starting.

    Some of the hatcheries sell ducklings that are obviously not purebred and call them Swedish. I've seen birds from a hatchery where the males had extra large shiny green heads and rings around their necks. "Bibs" were just mottled blotches.

    Sorry but that doesn't meet my idea of Swedish.

    Male Swedish have smooth medium size heads, no ring around the neck, and no green heads. Blacks have black heads. Blues have dark blue heads, and splash have white (or pale silver) heads. Bibs should be clean and well defined.
     
  4. Rosebud 18

    Rosebud 18 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This my blue and black swedish ducklings. They are at the back.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. 70%cocoa

    70%cocoa Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:That is a shame.

    I guess the thing to decide is how serious you are about wanting to breed up birds that you can honestly call pure bred Swedish. If you just want pretty pets then carry on with the birds you have. If you want to own or sell or show birds that you can honestly call pure Swedish then I agree with the above post - get hold of some pure bred stock that do not throw odd colours (or white).

    Get a quality trio or even a pair of birds from a line that has been going for quite a while. Keep them separate from your current birds for breeding (even just separate during the breeding season). Common faults to avoid in the parents in addition to the neck rings are brown in the feathers and white behind the eye. It's hard to get rid of those things.

    When looking for birds to buy keep the following in mind:

    Breeding black to black will produce 100% black
    Breeding splash to splash will produce 100% splash
    Breeding black to blue will produce some black, some blue
    Breeding splash to blue will produce some blue, some splash
    Breeding blue to blue will produce some blue, some splash and some black

    The last two or three flights feathers should be white - this is governed by a recessive gene so ideally both the parents should have white flight feathers or you will get some offspring without. So look for this feature in breeding stock as well.
     
  6. 70%cocoa

    70%cocoa Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Just saw your pic [​IMG] Yep, you have a blue and a black as you already thought. The black bird's bib doesn't look too bad to me from this angle (not too blotchy) except for the fact that it continues right up to the chin which is not great. The black bird looks to have white flight feathers coming through which is good.

    Which bird is the whiteish drake you mentioned? Is it the one preening towards the front with the dark bill?
     
  7. Oregon Blues

    Oregon Blues Overrun With Chickens

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    Central Oregon
    70%cocoa, I was all thrilled to see someone else raising Swedish ducks and then I saw that you are in Australia.

    Oh well. We can still be friends.
     
  8. 70%cocoa

    70%cocoa Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Yeah, what a bummer!

    Quote:For sure [​IMG] Good to have another Swedish purist around [​IMG]
     
  9. Rosebud 18

    Rosebud 18 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The whiteish one in front thats preening is a welsh harlequin. The 2 white ones laying down are fawn/white runners. The other black swedish is laying next F/W. The other 2 speckle ones are also WH. All 3 swedish have the white tips on the wing feathers. One of the blacks bib seem splotch,
     

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