Brabanters and Spitzhaubens--The Differences PIC HEAVY!

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by EweSheep, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

    21,917
    73
    418
    Jan 12, 2007
    Land of Lincoln
    For those who are not familiar with the breeds, there are some links about them.

    BRABANTERS:
    http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/index.php?title=Brabanter
    http://www.kippengrabbelton.be/koppenb.htm

    SPITZHAUBENS:
    http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/index.php?title=Appenzeller_spitskuif

    Yep they do come in all colors! Even they are distant cousins, the similarities are there but the two differences I see in both breeds are the beards and wattles.

    When purchasing a ROOSTER from a breeder, look at the suggestions below.

    If you get a Brabanter with wattles and beard, somewhere down the line it is a crossbred probably a Brabanter and Spitzhauben OR Spitzhauben and Polish cross.
    If you get a Brabanter without beard and has wattles, it could be either a Golden Spitzhauben or a cross of Spitzhauben with Golden Polish.
    If you get a Spitzhauben with beard, it would be a Brabanter or a cross.
    If you get a Spitzhauben with beard AND wattles, same as first line.

    Spitzhaubens were imported in the US about 1950's by Dr McGraw and he has sold chicks in limited quantities over the years until his death.

    The Brabanters importation in the US is unknown at this time. However there were a few Canadian Brabanters but not very many. I think people later down the line mixed up the bloods of Spitzhaubens and crossed them with other breeds and worked from then on. It is a pity that hatcheries and unfocused breeders are greatly responsible for the mess. I am sure alot of us have alot of work to do to get back where they originally from. If it is all you have to work with, go for it and be prepared to cull HEAVILY and stick with the standards!

    Other breeds:
    http://www.kippengrabbelton.be/engels/
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
    2 people like this.
  2. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

    2,847
    12
    201
    Mar 31, 2008
    Lebanon, TN
    Since you mentioned em --

    A few months ago I dug up the German standard for brabanters. Here's the Babelfish translation of it -- not perfect, but better than nothing!

    Notice that the wattles (Kehllappen) **should** be covered by the beard, but don't necessarily HAVE to be.


    ----------

    Origin: Very old, already in 16. and 17. Century occurring,
    Netherlands race.

    General impression: Mittelgro& szliges, easily built, very mobile
    chicken in the type of land chicken with somewhat put up attitude and
    medium high position. The helmet hood and the three-divided beard are
    the most remarkable characteristics.

    Race characteristics cock:

    Trunk: broadly; stretched; to the rear more narrowly becoming.

    Neck: well centrallong; upright and easily curved carried; with full,
    close, well Behang developed.

    Back: centrallong; little dropping.

    Shoulders: well rounded.

    Wing: strongly developed rockers; lying close carried.

    Saddle: with full, broad Behang.

    Tail: relatively largely and plentifully develops; somewhat openly
    and highly, however not right-angled carried; the main and
    Nebensicheln long, broadly and curved.

    Chest: fully; well rounded; somewhat forward and raised carried.

    Belly: little develops.

    Head: medium sized; broadly; with thickened scalp, on which the
    helmet hood sits; without Protuberanz.

    Face: from the beard almost covers.

    Comb: from two round horns existing, which are directly before the
    hood V-shaped arranged.

    Kehllappen: hardly or only moderately develops; if possible of the
    beard covers.

    Ear disks: small; from sideburns covers.

    Eyes: largely; lively; orange colored to red-brown.

    Bill: centrallong; strongly; at the point curved; raised nostrils;
    between them a hufeisenförmige recess with or without meat wart.

    Bill color depending upon color impact following the run color.

    Beard: feather-rich; strongly constricted, whereby a clear three-
    divided beard formation develops. The chin beard covers the throat
    perfectly. Sideburns are enough laterally to at eye level, without
    obstructing the view.

    Hood: upright standing, upward rather pointedly running out and
    Helmhaube.Die the longest front hood feathers/springs appearing at
    the sides squeezed together can be curved a little forward, which
    should follow rear easily the neck line.

    Thigh: well centrallong; befiedert tautly.

    Runs: well centrallong; unbefiedert; broadly while stationary; Color
    see under color impact.

    Toes: centrallong; unbefiedert.

    Plumage: tautly and firmly lying close.

    Race characteristics hen: Up to the sex-conditioned differences the
    cock resembling. In the trunk a little more compact, while stationary
    somewhat more deeply and in the body attitude somewhat more
    horizontally than the cock. Kehllappen completely of the beard covers.

    Gross errors of race characteristics: Weak body; flatten chest; too
    more deeply or to high conditions; flatten or to steep tail attitude;
    to loose, broad, too short or spherical hood; weakly developed beard
    plumage; missing three-division of the beard; from the outside
    clearly visible Kehllappen with the hen; branched out or hardly
    developed comb horns; strongly lowered wing attitude; brown-black eye
    color.

    Weights: * Cock: 1,9 - 2.5 kg * Hen: 1,2 - 2 kg

    Breeding egg minimum weight: 52g Bowl color of the eggs: White.

    Ring sizes: * Cock: 18 * Hen: 16
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

    21,917
    73
    418
    Jan 12, 2007
    Land of Lincoln
    Thank you Amazondoc!!! That is why in pictures I saw some with wattles and others do not. They both are beautiful breeds!
     
  4. Bantimna

    Bantimna Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 29, 2009
    South Africa
    I personaly think Brabanters are one of my favorites [​IMG]
     
  5. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

    2,847
    12
    201
    Mar 31, 2008
    Lebanon, TN
    I like my brabanters a lot. Not only are they goofy looking, they are also funny and endearing. There's a coupla hens that like to jump on my back when I bend over in the main pen, and they also jump up on my chair when I sit down so they can see what I'm doing. I call one of em my falcon because she likes to sit on my wrist and observe the world. [​IMG]
     
  6. mstricer

    mstricer Overrun With Chickens

    7,480
    180
    298
    Feb 12, 2009
    Ohio
    EweSheep from the pics of the Spitz on the web page, I'm taking mine is not full one (got at a hatchery) He sorts looks like polish is mixed with it what do you think or is it just a bad trait
    [​IMG]
    and heres the trio
    [​IMG]
     
  7. becky3086

    becky3086 Crested Crazy

    Oct 14, 2008
    Thomson, GA
    That is the problem with mine too. The crests do not go forward. I would love to find some with the correct crests.
     
  8. mstricer

    mstricer Overrun With Chickens

    7,480
    180
    298
    Feb 12, 2009
    Ohio
    Do yours look like they have Polish in them also? And do you think they could throw crests that are correct or will all of them look like that?
     
  9. becky3086

    becky3086 Crested Crazy

    Oct 14, 2008
    Thomson, GA
    Mine don't exactly look like they have Polish in them, but then I only have hens right now, but their crests go back instead of forward and the lacing on two of them is really poor. I have my doubts that they would throw a correct crest. I think you would need to start with some with correct crests to begin with.
     
  10. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

    21,917
    73
    418
    Jan 12, 2007
    Land of Lincoln
    They have beautiful color but unfortunately the Polish mops are a no no in the breed. They supposed to be up like mohawks and tipped forward. TRY to cull out Polish mops and get the closest you can for mohawks without too many sprigs (a few feathers sticking out on sides) and too drastic of a slick back mohawks. Find a roo just as pictured below of my senior roo that have similar traits.


    Here is the roo which I had to cull him out. Even though his mop is a little more upright but still wrong:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the senior roo that has the correct mohawk:
    [​IMG]

    Here is my hen, as a one year old:
    [​IMG]
    Same hen as above but two years old:
    [​IMG]

    Another hen, which I lost her this spring (sister is above photo):
    http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t15/HensOnly/?action=view&current=DSCF0021.jpg
    http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t15/HensOnly/?action=view&current=DSCF0012.jpg

    Now this is the pictures of the culls as you can see:
    http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t15/HensOnly/?action=view&current=DSCF0077.jpg
    The roo has too much Polish or too full of a mop nor did it goes forward. Beautiful guy, such a sweet one! Sold as a pet and a favorite for his new family, particularly his son.
    The pullet on the left, has some side sprigs, feathers sticking out sidewasy and had a genetic flaw (crooked back). Sold as an egg layer.
    The pullet on the right, has a very tiny, tiny bump of head feathers, but no length to it where the crest should be and it is a genetic flaw as well. Sold as a pet to the same family as the roo above.
    I was disappointed with this stock and will NOT continue with this line.

    The hens above with correct or acceptable mohawks were from Ideal Hatchery. They were the only two out of 25 chicks I've ordered total that was acceptable. The rest of the flock allhave Polish mop heads.

    Also the pattern of the spangles should not be overly extraggated. Crescents sometimes are acceptable to some foreign countries and some do like spangles better. As they age, they get less and less black spots. Since my hen has molted out just recently, her spots have gotten smaller. I should be able to take some pictures of her again when the weather gets better. It is raining right now and muddy. I love my hen to death and she knows it LOL! That is why I am getting more from different sources. Carla from OK has some and she is working on getting the mohawks on her Spitzhaubens.

    If it is all you have to work with, try to cull the offsprings with Polish heads and keep culling until you get a reasonable numbers of less culling each year. Yes it takes alot of time and dedication to make it work. the Polish traits are very difficult to weed out. If I was starting out having Spitzhaubens looking like that, I would start all over and get the best I can.

    I have not seen Sandhill's Spitzhaubens and hopefully someone can come forward for some pics of them.

    I am starting out a Spitzhauben club on FB a few months back and still learning and reading all I can about them! Carla (allenwranch) was the one who attracted me to them and I can not thank her enough for me to get some Spitzhaubens...they are so endearing!
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by