Breeding Black Frizzle Cochins ?

[JessaLynn]

I just received two black frizzle cochin bantam pullets and was wondering do I need a black frizzle roo to keep the frizzle gene or do you use a regular black Cochin bantam? I can't seem to find much info on the breed and I'm new to them. I have no clue sorry

 

[bloomnbeauty]

You need to use the regular black roo. You will get some chicks with straight feathers and some frizzled from them. But if you use a frizzle roo you will get a frazzle which are much stiffer feathers and easily broken.

 

[nzpouter]

regular cochin, frizzle is an autosomal dominant gene, you'll get 50-50 of that pairing.

 

[JessaLynn]

Thanks for all your help.Glad I asked!

 

[therealsilkiechick]

yep always breed frizzle to smooth. u don't have to use a black. u can use blue, black or a splash roo and still keep the colors pure.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

well having bred frizzle cochins for several decades I would not breed frizzle to frizzle

the "smooths" that come from a regular feathered cochin is the ones used in the f-1 mating
of father to daughter
mother to son

I always used the smooth females to my frizzle roosters

I showed both the female frizzles and male frizzles

The smooths are very important to the mating of frizzles

when using the frizzle to frizzle you get the extreme frizzles and will eventually breed the feathers off the birds
the feather folicles will not be in the skin

the chick will have curliest tight feathers and by the third molt not have many feathers at all
these extreme frizzles make for birds that can't stand the cold or the heat and have to be culled


the fact that if one breeds the frizzles long enough to each other you breed the feather folicles
the holes in the skin for the frizzle feather to come out. I know I tried it before I learned how to breed good frizzles
Frizzles have a modifying Gene which allows their feathers to curl forward. I had a pullet that had not more than 20 feathers on her whole body so she was a waster. I figured out quick that why take the time to feed and house birds I was going to kill 1/4 of them in the end

so went to using only smooths out of frizzles and regular frizzles. that way I got 1/2 frizzles of good quality and 1/2 smooths to breed with.

I personally liked my frizzle males for breeding to the smooth females as the smooth females had better type than the smooth males. I never liked a long legged cochin male

And I showed my female frizzles as well as the frizzle males.

Never had the brittle feathers thatpeople speak of Just had them lose the places for feathers to grow into the body with. Folicle holes. but frizzles get a tight curled narrow wet looking feather if you breed frizzle to frizzle too long.


Here is a friend of mine from Australia that explains the modifying gene in frizzles
KazJaps from Australia

here is a Frizzle modifying gene (mf) that alters the ___expression of Frizzling (F). This might explain Glenda’s results. Put these genes together in different combinations & you’ll get various expressions of frizzling (or no frizzling). A bird may appear not to be frizzled, but may actually have the frizzle modifying gene masking ___expression (heterozygous for frizzling & homozygous for frizzle modifier: Ff+ mfmf). So the phenotype (how a bird looks) is non-frizzled, but genetically they have the frizzle gene. Glenda puts it nicely, “Smooth Frizzle”. The bird actually has one dose of the frizzle gene. Therefore offspring of 2 seemingly normal-feathered birds may produce a Frizzle (by the modifying gene becoming heterozygous or the frizzle gene becoming homozygous).

So, there are 5 main phenotypes (how a bird looks)
1: normal feathering (f+f+ Mf+Mf+ or f+f+ mfmf)
2: smooths, as Glenda calls them (Ff+ mfmf)
3: exhibition frizzles (Ff+ Mf+Mf+)
4: frizzled, less woolly than extreme (FF mfmf)
5: extreme frizzling (FF Mf+Mf+)

f+ = non-frizzled gene (wild type)
F = frizzle gene (incomplete dominant)

mf = modifying frizzle gene (recessive)
Mf+ = non-modifying frizzle gene (wild type)

FF = homozygous frizzle (2 doses of the frizzle gene)
Ff+ = heterozygous frizzle (1 dose of the frizzle gene)

mfmf = homozygous modifying frizzle (2 doses of the modifying frizzle gene)

* The modifying gene needs two copies (homozygous) for ___expression, plus the frizzle gene. The frizzle gene needs at least one copy for ___expression, plus not homozygous for modifying genes (if heterozygous for frizzling Ff+).

So, as Glenda explained, if you breed two smoothies together (Ff+ mfmf X Ff+ mfmf), there is still the possibility of getting frizzled birds (FF mfmf), about 25%. Also breeding a smoothie (Ff+ mfmf) with a normal feathered bird (wild type f+f+ Mf+Mf+) will produce frizzle (Ff+ Mf+mf), & so on ……

The frizzle modifying gene apparently is quite common in non-frizzled birds.

Well, that’s the theory anyway. This thread is a perfect example why I like to listen to people who have bred birds for decades. It is not very common for poultry geneticists to have identified a modifying gene such as this

email me with any questions

 

[JessaLynn]

O WOW that was some useful info thank you so much!! I had no idea it was so perplexed and I may even just leave the breeding for the frizzles to the professionals

I simply was curious really.These are my sons pets but he suggested him showing these at the fair for 4H but we need a male and he's got to wait till next year till he's able to.

 

[EggHunter_66]

Just last month I got a frizzle roo and a smooth Cochin hen. I hatched 12 eggs and it looks like none are frizzles. Now will those babies have the frizzle gene? Is there a chance they might produce a frizzle?