Breeding Falb Fee with Scarlet/Range question

[threeepeat]

I came across this older 2020 thread that briefly discusses breeding Falb Fee with Scarlett/Range. I'm wondering if experienced breeders can elaborate on what can result from this combination and some others.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/red-range-x-faulb-fee-question.1414420/

I believe that, because the roux gene is the sex linked gene, if we breed Scarlett (roux) on to Rosetta, we would get sex linked chicks.

But, if true, what would we get if we breed the other way around, Rosetta on to Scarlett?

What would we get if we breed Scarlett on to Rosetta Fee? Would we get some kind of fee version of sex-linked chicks?

And the other way around, what would we get if we breed Rosetta Fee on to Scarlett?

What would we get if we breed Scarlett/Range on to Falb Fee?

And finally, what would we get if we breed the other way around, Falb Fee on to Scarlett/Range?

This may get more complicated because some Fees may be have one (fee) gene, and others may have two? Is this correct? Thanks for any insight!

And Happy New Year everyone!!!

 

[QuailQueen3]

I came across this older 2020 thread that briefly discusses breeding Falb Fee with Scarlett/Range. I'm wondering if experienced breeders can elaborate on what can result from this combination and some others.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/red-range-x-faulb-fee-question.1414420/

I believe that, because the roux gene is the sex linked gene, if we breed Scarlett (roux) on to Rosetta, we would get sex linked chicks.

But, if true, what would we get if we breed the other way around, Rosetta on to Scarlett?

What would we get if we breed Scarlett on to Rosetta Fee? Would we get some kind of fee version of sex-linked chicks?

And the other way around, what would we get if we breed Rosetta Fee on to Scarlett?

What would we get if we breed Scarlett/Range on to Falb Fee?

And finally, what would we get if we breed the other way around, Falb Fee on to Scarlett/Range?

This may get more complicated because some Fees may be have one (fee) gene, and others may have two? Is this correct? Thanks for any insight!

And Happy New Year everyone!!!

Southwest Gamebirds has the most information on plumage genetics that I have found. Maybe it will help answer some of your questions. Good luck!

 

[threeepeat]

Southwest Gamebirds has the most information on plumage genetics that I have found. Maybe it will help answer some of your questions. Good luck!

Thanks. Yes, SW has some great foundation info and pictures. I like it.

I know this is the dreaded quail genetics rabbit hole which can get complicated and murky real quick! But it's also fascinating. It also seems to be a work in progress. More information and resources, and even names for combinations are emerging over time.

Does anyone have a picture of a Scarlett Fee?

For those that are interested in quail genetics, this presentation is the best one I've found so far on the topic of roux, and especially for roux with fee.

CREDIT: Aly from Maines Confetti Quail Farm and Coturnix Corner

The biggest takeaway for me is that roux gene introduces a third term in to the mix --hemizygous.

We normally hear about heterozygous (1 copy of a gene) and homozygous (2 copies), but with the roux gene, the roux-carrying hens are hemizygous (which just means that hens can only carry one copy of the roux gene - but it behaves like two copies).

This is the basis of the sex linked scenarios: breeding a roux male (e.g. Scarlett) over it's non-roux version hen (e.g. Rosetta) results in all male chicks being the non-roux version (e.g. Rosetta) and all female chicks being the roux version (e.g. Scarlett), so chicks are essentially sexable (gender identifiable) on Day 1.

Let me know if I have this wrong. That's very possible. In any case, Aly explains it better and in greater detail!

 

[QuailQueen3]

Thanks. Yes, SW has some great foundation info and pictures. I like it.

I know this is the dreaded quail genetics rabbit hole which can get complicated and murky real quick! But it's also fascinating. It also seems to be a work in progress. More information and resources, and even names for combinations are emerging over time.

Does anyone have a picture of a Scarlett Fee?

For those that are interested in quail genetics, this presentation is the best one I've found so far on the topic of roux, and especially for roux with fee.

CREDIT: Aly from Maines Confetti Quail Farm and Coturnix Corner

The biggest takeaway for me is that roux gene introduces a third term in to the mix --hemizygous.

We normally hear about heterozygous (1 copy of a gene) and homozygous (2 copies), but with the roux gene, the roux-carrying hens are hemizygous (which just means that hens can only carry one copy of the roux gene - but it behaves like two copies).

This is the basis of the sex linked scenarios: breeding a roux male (e.g. Scarlett) over it's non-roux version hen (e.g. Rosetta) results in all male chicks being the non-roux version (e.g. Rosetta) and all female chicks being the roux version (e.g. Scarlett), so chicks are essentially sexable (gender identifiable) on Day 1.

Let me know if I have this wrong. That's very possible. In any case, Aly explains it better and in greater detail!

You can also see if MyShire Farms YouTube channel has any helpful videos. If not, Zach who runs MyShire Farms does live Q&As every Sunday and Tuesday and you could ask your questions in that forum. I think Sunday is for longer questions and Tuesday is shorter, troubleshooting instead of deeper conversations.

 

[threeepeat]

You can also see if MyShire Farms YouTube channel has any helpful videos. If not, Zach who runs MyShire Farms does live Q&As every Sunday and Tuesday and you could ask your questions in that forum. I think Sunday is for longer questions and Tuesday is shorter, troubleshooting instead of deeper conversations.

Thanks QuailQueen. It seems like we've stumbled upon all the same videos online. Yep, I've watched MyShire's All About the Colors videos, and the genetics ones including the two by Christy from Duke University. They're all helpful. I appreciate all these groups producing content like this. I've consumed as much online info as I possibly can. I enjoy the challenge... so far.

I even watched Coturnix Corner's

History of Coturnix Mutations - with Dana Manchester & Michael Rose​

It's a snapshot of the history of coturnix, in the US at least, and focuses more on genetics in the context of the history of quail, rather than specifically on the various types of coturnix.

I suspect that all the new coturnix people get super interested in genetics, mutations, funky colors and patterns etc. until they their brains explode haha. Healthy and happy birds is no. 1, but the varieties are very cool too

 

[ButtonNomies]

It would depend greatly on which genes are also dominant and which genes are recessive. Recessive genes need 2 copies to be able to be produced and a dominant gene will always overshadow a recessive gene if there is more than 1 copy carried thru. Im not sure which genes would be required to sex link. But I do know that sex linking isn't 100% ... for example, all tortoishell cats are female (because the 3 genes associated with the colours are female genes) yet it is still possible for a male tortie to be born. Granted they're usually hermaproditic in some aspect but they still carry male organs.
So for ur matches you would have to find out which genes are dominant and which are recessive. You would also need to know what hets and homs ur birds carry and if theyre recessive or dominant too before u could be absolutely certain what those mixes would produce xx