Breeding Project, will it work?

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by Painy, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Painy

    Painy In the Brooder

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    I am soon going to have gold laced sebrights and gold spangled bantam appenzeller spitzhauben. While i want to breed the sebrights towards the sop, i also want to try my own project. That would be creating a small, gold laced and crested (hopefully crest will remain of the spitzhauben type). I thought i would just mix the two breeds and then breed the F1s that have a crest (should be dominant but i read it does not always actually play out that way) back to sebrights. Then repeat this step for a few more generations and once the lacing is decent, breed them with eachother.
    the crest should be smaller than the spitzhauben for every cross with sebrights but then at least some should have bigger crests again when breeding the mixes together right?
    Can this work at all? Would my idea work or should i do it differently?
    Also I would like henny feathering and since its dominant ill probably get it right? Its not a must tho.
    Since i really want to try this ANY input would be great. Even if you dont know for certain do you think maybe it could work out ?
    Thanks so much in advance for every response!
     
    ButtonquailGirl14 likes this.
  2. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

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    You have a good understanding on the breeding project and its possible outcomes, the first cross will likely be Spangled due to the heterozygous nature of Co(Co/co+) but once you cross back again to Sebrights the lacing will be back, the lacing will be back real quick as other genes are already there in the Spangled brids(ER, Db, Pg, Ml)
     
    ButtonquailGirl14 and Painy like this.
  3. Painy

    Painy In the Brooder

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    Ye the kippenjungle calculator says the F1 will have half spangling. What im worried with most is the crest. Because if I cross the F1 back to sebright im not sure how many will still have a crest. If its only like 10% that would mean i need a few too many chicks for this project. And then id have to cross back to the spitzhauben which would mess up the lacing again. And even though it seems like i would get the lacing fast, it will probably be much harder to get decent-good lacing.

    Thank you so much for your input btw. I was scared no one would reply!
     
    ButtonquailGirl14 likes this.
  4. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

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    Have you ever seen "Half Spangling"? :p

    You could also do a F1xF1 and select for the lacing with crest...

    Any chance of just working with Silver Laced Polish instead? They have the same type of lacing than Sebrights and have rather large crest
     
  5. Painy

    Painy In the Brooder

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    I guess you meant gold laced polish? Well id have to get that breed first which i dont want. But more importantly i dont like the large crest at all. I like the spitzhauben crest not only because it looks cool but mainly because it does not hinder vision at all. I guess i will just try crossing back to sebright until too few develop crests (if that even happens) and then proceed with just breeding the mixes to each other and select lacing and crest like you suggested.
     
    Brahma Chicken5000 likes this.
  6. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

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    Yes, gold or silver whichever works best for you, the best thing about that cross is that the Back cross to Sebrigths(F1xSebright) will have as much crest as spitzhauben due to the outcross, some of the genes that are required for the crest size of the Polish will be left out on the crossing, leaving just enough for the correct size to work with
     
    ButtonquailGirl14 likes this.
  7. Painy

    Painy In the Brooder

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    Is that how it works? are you sure that a polish crest can turn into a spitzhauben crest just like that? I thought it worked like that: Backcross to sebright has the nice smaller crest but when crossing F1 for a while they will have both genes again and it will be the same polish crest again. Also when i said i will get those 2 breeds soon I meant they are hatching soon. 14 developed eggs of each breed atm. So i wont get polish. But I will just use your advice and do best of F1xF1 and do a small test batch with F1xSebright
     
  8. Painy

    Painy In the Brooder

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    So i found something interesting: http://breedsavers.blogspot.de/2011/05/appenzeller-spitzhauben.html?m=1

    To create the bantam version of the spitzhauben Herman van Olst crossed with the dutch bantam (non crested breed) and it took him 10 generations to get the crest right.
    So with this information in mind would this approach be a better idea: Cross sebrights and spitzhaubens then Cross F1. Now there should be some with gold lacing in F2. Cross the F2 (with the best lacing) back to spitzhaubens. F3 hopefully has decent crests now. Cross F3 with eachother. F4 should have gold lacing again right? Depending on where the F4 is lacking more (crest or lacing) proceed to cross with eachother or do another backcross.
     
  9. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

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    Sound like a good plan
     
    Painy likes this.

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