Broken Few cross?

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by poultry bro, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. poultry bro

    poultry bro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hello everybody I have been raising rabbits for about a year now and mostly bred new Zealand's and Californians but I got bored not having any colors so I got myself a hybrid rabbit that is a black broken and she is pretty small so the only thing I could breed her to was my rex buck who was only a little bigger than her but anyway my question is what will the offspring be? I know that broken bred to solid should produce solid broken and Charlies but my buck is a REW and I know the albino gene is dominant so what will the babies be? Will they all be albino because of the REW gene or will I get some broken? If any of my info on genetics is wrong please correct me I want to learn this stuff thanks everybody!
     
  2. Bunnylady

    Bunnylady POOF Goes the Pooka

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    OK, taking the last first, REW is fully recessive, not dominant; to get REW,both parents have to at least carry it. If you get any REW babies from this cross, you will know that your mixed-breed doe is carrying the REW gene, too.

    Broken bred to a solid produces brokens and solids; the only way you get Charlies is broken x broken. That said, you can't be sure just by looking that a REW doesn't carry broken (a pattern of white on a white rabbit is still, well, white). Broken is dominant; if your white buck has ever produced broken babies when bred to a solid doe, you know he has the broken gene,

    On the other hand, if your Rex buck comes from a long line of solid rabbits, he may not have any of the "helper" genes that are needed to produce the better types of broken patterns, and any brokens you get may be what they call "booted" brokens. Booted brokens have white on their feet, and maybe a little bit of white on the chest, belly, and/or forehead, but otherwise look like solid colored rabbits.

    Beyond that, it's pretty hard to say what the bunnies from this cross might look like. REW's don't tell you anything about what other genes they are carrying; you have to look at their ancestors and/or offspring to figure it out. Don't suppose you have a pedigree for him, by any chance?
     
  3. poultry bro

    poultry bro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    First of all thank you for setting me straight on the genetics thing although I have seen charlies come out of broken solid crosses that's all I have to say otherwise and this REW buck is gonna be a first time father so I have no idea what his babies will look like and no I don't have a pedigree I bought him at an auction for 2 dollars along with another rabbit that was in the cage with him a doe that looks like a new zealand only she might be a little smaller but idk if they are related they were both only about 4 to 6 weeks old so like I said no idea if there is any relation but the red was always smaller but anyway I'm gettin off topic I'm so excited to see what comes out like I said no idea what his underlying color is and no idea what his babies or relatives look like but thank you for the information!
     
  4. Bunnylady

    Bunnylady POOF Goes the Pooka

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    The broken pattern varies widely in expression; just because an animal doesn't have much color doesn't make it a Charlie. The term "Charlie" was supposedly coined by people who breed the English Spot, and it is applied to animals that have two copies of the broken gene. Since broken is dominant, it is not possible for a solid colored rabbit to have the broken gene (solid white, of course, being the exception), so it is not possible for the offspring of a solid x broken cross to have two copies of the broken gene, so it is not possible to get Charlies from anything other than a broken x broken cross.

    One of the most extreme expression of the broken pattern is the Blanc de Hotot:
    [​IMG]

    or its miniature version, the Dwarf Hotot:
    [​IMG]
    I know some people that are breeding broken Netherland Dwarfs, and I suspect they "borrowed" a broken gene from the Dwarf Hotot, because the broken Dwarfs that I have seen have color on their ears, color around the eyes, a spot or two on the body, and that's it - and I know that genetically, they are NOT Charlies. Just as it is possible to get waaay too much color on a broken, it is possible to get much too much white on a broken, and it still has only one copy of the broken gene. The broken gene sets the pattern for white on the rabbit, but there are a bunch of "helper" genes that determine how that white appears on the rabbit. Get the wrong helpers, and you may get something like a booted:
    [​IMG]

    Get the right ones, and you can have all the details of an English Spot:
    [​IMG]

    - all with only one copy of the broken gene.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  5. poultry bro

    poultry bro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Very interesting thank you for that info! I see what u mean my definition of Charlie is less than 10% color on the body so that's why our opinions differed thanks for setting me straight on that I'm still waiting to see what comes out. I do have another question tho since my buck is albino he is covering up a color right? So hypothetically if he was say a blue color under than albino gene is it possible that he could produce blue brokens? The doe is a broken black if I didn't mention that.
     
  6. Bunnylady

    Bunnylady POOF Goes the Pooka

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    Well, here's the "alphabet soup" of what we know about this pair:

    Doe:
    aaB_C_D_E_Enen

    Buck:
    ____cc______

    (For convenience sake, I left off some of the less likely things like wide band and BEW, but they can't completely be ruled out.)

    Every place you see a blank line, that's a gene we don't know. There's something there, of course, we just don't know what it is. We know very little about the buck, but there's a lot we don't know about the doe, too.

    This is a broken blue:
    aaB_C_ddE_Enen

    ^^This^^ is what the buck and the doe have to put together to produce a broken blue. We know that the doe has some of the right genes, but we really don't know if the buck has any of them. In one case, the dilution gene (d), we don't even know if the doe has it, either. Since dilution is recessive, it takes two copies (one from the mother and one from the father) to produce a dilute.

    Hypothetically, you could get a broken blue, but that's dependent on a lot of variables that you simply don't know at this point. Once your litter is born, you should be able to fill in some of the blanks as to what the buck is carrying but not expressing, and maybe learn a thing or two about the doe, as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  7. poultry bro

    poultry bro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks for all the help her due date is coming in the next week or so maybe the week after I'm really excited to see what we get I'll let you know what she has!!
     
  8. poultry bro

    poultry bro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ok well my doe had 3 kits and one was a broken black one was a broken blue and the last one was a solid blue they are gorgeous kits and I'm very happy with them the litter was a little small but I like quality not quantity awesome experience tho I'm excited to breed them to other colors like my otters
     

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