Bronze blackshoulder question.

Discussion in 'Peafowl' started by Barney47, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Barney47

    Barney47 Out Of The Brooder

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    N. Central, ILL
    I have a Bronze male and 2 Bronze hens and a blackshoulder hen(blue). How do I go about breeding my own birds to get Bronze bs? I have read Fred Huebner's book on genetics but can't figure out how to use the punnetts square to reach this result. He has an illustration on how to get Oaten but this is sex-linked so is a little different. I know if I cross my Bronze male with a bs hen I would get blue looking chicks split to Bronze and bs but then I don't know what to do. Cross the F1 back to the father or to each other? What would the percentages be? And last, why are Bronze bs so expensive? Bronze has been around for some time; certainly longer than Opal or Midnight and a few others. Are they harder to reproduce, lay fewer eggs or what? Would appreciate a demonstration by someone proficient on the punnetts square or genetics.

    Thanks

    Jack
     
  2. deerman

    deerman Rest in Peace 1949-2012

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    back to each other, back to father would only give you BRONZE SPLIT BS.

    Blues split bronze split bs x bluesplit bronze split bs=some bronze bs

    No bronze bs are not any harder to raise , just alot more people want them. Supply and demand.


    I breed a Bronze peacock to 4 different hens, bs, pied, white eye, and silver pied all four split to bronze. Hatch alot of chicks from that pen. I got bronzes split to these patterns , also got blues split bronze and these patterns,


    They are not sex link , so both birds will need to be split to a color or pattern to produce that color or pattern.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  3. DMFarm

    DMFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jack
    The bronze has been around for awhile but there is still not that many blackshoulder bronze out there. About 6 years ago they were 1500.00 pr now they are around 400.00 to 500.00 a pair so they have came down alot the more that is produce the cheaper the price will be. Four years ago I bought a 2 year old bronze blackshoulder spalding male and 2 blue hens split to bronze, blackshoulder and silver pied I paid 1000.00 for them. You can get them by breeding a bronze to the blackshoulder hen but it going to take several years because you are working with a color and a pattern. I would breed the offspring back together because all this chick will be split bronze and blackshoulder and you should get some blackshoulder bronze if you lucky if not you will have some blues some will be split bronze some split blackshoulder some split both bronze and blackshoulder and some that will be only blues you will also get blackshoulder some of these will be split bronze. if you breed thim back to the bronze male the offspring will produce no blackshoulder patterns chicks you will get blue and bronze offspring some of these will carry the blackshoulder pattern but you want know.
    Doug
     
  4. deerman

    deerman Rest in Peace 1949-2012

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    You should see a SPALDING BLACKSHOULDER BRONZE....they are dark
     
  5. 6littlechickies

    6littlechickies Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 12, 2009
    Burton, OH
    Crossing a Bronze with a BS hen would give you offspring that were Split to BS and Split to Bronze. Mating back to the father would not be the quickest way to a BS Bronze. If you mated a male and female that were split to bronze and split to blackshoulder, i.e your first gen offspring of your bronze male and female BS, you could end up with a BS Bronze. Here is how it would break down...

    M= male gene passed B for Bronze, I for Blue
    m=male gene passed S for BS, W for barred wing
    F=female gene passed B for Bronze, I for Blue
    f=female gene passed S for BS, W for barred wing

    M=B m=S F=B f=W offspring =Bronze split BS
    M=B m=W F=B f=W offspring =Bronze
    M=I m=S F=B f=W offspring=Split Bronze split BS
    M=I m=W F=B f=W offspring=Split Bronze
    M=B m=S F=B f=S offspring=Bronze BS [​IMG]
    M=B m=W F=B f=S offspring=Bronze split BS
    M=I m=S F=B f=S offspring=split Bronze BS
    M=I m=W F=B f=S offspring=split bronze split BS
    M=B m=S F=I f=W offspring=split bronze split BS
    M=B m=W F=I f=W offspring=split bronze
    M=I m=S F=I f=W offspring=Blue split BS
    M=I m=W F=I f=W offspring=Blue
    M=B m=S F=I f=S offspring=split bronze BS
    M=B m=W F=I f=S offspring=split bronze split BS
    M=I m=S F=I f=S offspring=BS
    M=I m=W F=I f=S offspring=Blue split BS

    so if my calcs are correct there are 16 combos given genes from each side, but if you check there are duplications based on who gives the gene. Here are your ratios.

    Blue 1/16 or 6.25%
    BS 1/16 6.25%
    split Bronze split BS 4 /16 25%
    split Bronze 2/16 12.5%
    Bronze 1/16 6.25%
    Bronze BS 1/16 6.25%
    split BS 2/16 12.5%
    Bronze split BS 2/16 12.5%
    Split bronze BS 2/16 12.5%


    Hope this helps and if anyone wants to check it that would be great.

    Why is Bronze so much $$$. Well the math behind doing the calcs to get to Bronze BS is why....[​IMG]

    Seriously, I think it is a popular color and that is why, demand behind it. When we first saw one we had to get it. And now have 2 bronze males and a variety of patterned (BS, WE, SP) split bronze hens and some Bronze hens. Good luck
     
  6. DMFarm

    DMFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    If you use a punnett square this is what you should get breeding a bronze to a blackshoulder.
    1 bronze
    2 bronze split blackshoulder
    1 bronze blackshoulder
    2 blues split bronze
    4 blue split bronze and blackshoulder
    2 blue split blackshoulder
    1 blue
    2 blackshoulder spit bronze
    1 blackshoulder
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  7. Barney47

    Barney47 Out Of The Brooder

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    N. Central, ILL
    Sorry I haven't posted a reply sooner but just back from watching the Bears get beat by Green Bay. Darn Packers. Now I will be rooting for the Steelers.

    Thanks for all the info. I guess it is just supply and demand because I think it is the same math calculations for Opal, Midnight or any other non sex-linked colors.

    It will take awhile to get the bronze bs so maybe I should get a bronze carrying bs to breed with what I have. This may shorten my time a couple of years. This is an interesting hobby and I am sure rewarding when you finally get what you are striving for. I would do it the long way if I were younger but this is my retirement project and at my age (63) it looks like it would take about 6 years.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  8. 6littlechickies

    6littlechickies Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 12, 2009
    Burton, OH
    Quote:Your right, got me. [​IMG] The genetics are the same for all non sex linked birds when mating two split/split together. Picking up a (Bronze or split Bronze) BS will cut your time pretty good. If given a choice, pick up a male Bronze BS before a female, you can get more splits to BS mating him to your Bronze hens, then in 2 years mate them (the Bronze BS splits) back to dad to get some BS Bronze. Time=2 years to get chicks, 4 years till breeders.

    Good luck
     

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