Brown cheek, just a coincidence?

Coturnixxx

In the Brooder
May 10, 2021
35
18
34
Málaga, Spain
Hi!
I have this gray coturnix male, 4 weeks now, with brown cheek just as the feather sexable types. The father is white, and mother cinnamon tuxedo (not feather sexable). Do you think it is just a coincidence he looks like a feather sexable bird? It would be great to breed him to maintain this trait.
(It's pure celadon, btw, and my idea is to breed him with first generation Italian-celadon F1 hens).
Thanks a lot for your thoughts!
 

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muddy75

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Hi!
I have this gray coturnix male, 4 weeks now, with brown cheek just as the feather sexable types. The father is white, and mother cinnamon tuxedo (not feather sexable). Do you think it is just a coincidence he looks like a feather sexable bird? It would be great to breed him to maintain this trait.
(It's pure celadon, btw, and my idea is to breed him with first generation Italian-celadon F1 hens).
Thanks a lot for your thoughts!
My understanding is that the silver collection gets bred back to pharaoh every so often to keep the line healthy and avoid the lethal gene. So it’s probably an expression of a hidden gene. It would be interesting to see if he passes it on.
 

FloorCandy

Crowing
Apr 15, 2020
3,520
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Hi!
I have this gray coturnix male, 4 weeks now, with brown cheek just as the feather sexable types. The father is white, and mother cinnamon tuxedo (not feather sexable). Do you think it is just a coincidence he looks like a feather sexable bird? It would be great to breed him to maintain this trait.
(It's pure celadon, btw, and my idea is to breed him with first generation Italian-celadon F1 hens).
Thanks a lot for your thoughts!
At 4 weeks are you certain it’s male? I’ve found with silver there’s quite a wide variation in results. I’m wondering if the cinnamon hen is roux with silver and maybe fee. If that is definitely a male, I’d say the most likely explanation is that he carries 1 copy of roux, and roux often shows on male carriers, especially on the face and neck when they’re feathering in the first time. If this is the case, he can pass each of those genes on separately or together. A female only needs one copy of roux to be roux, but a male needs 2 copies, if it has only 1, it will be whatever other color, such as Tibetan, but will be flavored with the, not quite unseen, roux gene.
 

Coturnixxx

In the Brooder
May 10, 2021
35
18
34
Málaga, Spain
My understanding is that the silver collection gets bred back to pharaoh every so often to keep the line healthy and avoid the lethal gene. So it’s probably an expression of a hidden gene. It would be interesting to see if he passes it on.
Thanks! Then it's worth a try. I'll tell you in a few months if he passed it on.
 

Coturnixxx

In the Brooder
May 10, 2021
35
18
34
Málaga, Spain
At 4 weeks are you certain it’s male? I’ve found with silver there’s quite a wide variation in results. I’m wondering if the cinnamon hen is roux with silver and maybe fee. If that is definitely a male, I’d say the most likely explanation is that he carries 1 copy of roux, and roux often shows on male carriers, especially on the face and neck when they’re feathering in the first time. If this is the case, he can pass each of those genes on separately or together. A female only needs one copy of roux to be roux, but a male needs 2 copies, if it has only 1, it will be whatever other color, such as Tibetan, but will be flavored with the, not quite unseen, roux gene.
Yes, he crows as a boy! I isolate one by one, and some crow early, others later, or never :). This one was early.
Thank you for your thoughts! I think the other bird on the second photo could be his mother. The father was white with some hidden light silver. Let's see what happens!
 

FloorCandy

Crowing
Apr 15, 2020
3,520
7,109
441
Yes, he crows as a boy! I isolate one by one, and some crow early, others later, or never :). This one was early.
Thank you for your thoughts! I think the other bird on the second photo could be his mother. The father was white with some hidden light silver. Let's see what happens!
The mother looks like she is scarlet fee, so her being roux and the father being silver, that result makes perfect sense. Hens can be silver and roux, but they won’t favor the gray like the dad, they are what I describe as dusty rose:
0D115018-46A0-4CDC-9AE3-A469E8236121.jpeg


However, males can have 2 copies of scarlet as well as silver, and come out the same color:
E66DAD59-84C6-4D55-9BE3-EF2519702D25.jpeg


you’re best bet, is to set up a sex link program, where you have a male with 2 copies of roux, with hens that carry no roux at all. All resulting roux offspring will be females, all non roux are males.
 

Coturnixxx

In the Brooder
May 10, 2021
35
18
34
Málaga, Spain
The mother looks like she is scarlet fee, so her being roux and the father being silver, that result makes perfect sense. Hens can be silver and roux, but they won’t favor the gray like the dad, they are what I describe as dusty rose:
View attachment 2877899

However, males can have 2 copies of scarlet as well as silver, and come out the same color:
View attachment 2877898

you’re best bet, is to set up a sex link program, where you have a male with 2 copies of roux, with hens that carry no roux at all. All resulting roux offspring will be females, all non roux are males.
Thanks!
A friend sent me some celadon eggs to hatch, and so far, at 5 weeks of age, all male are Tibetan-Tuxedo, and probably all hens are red.
Looks like sex-linked breeding to me?
 

FloorCandy

Crowing
Apr 15, 2020
3,520
7,109
441
Thanks!
A friend sent me some celadon eggs to hatch, and so far, at 5 weeks of age, all male are Tibetan-Tuxedo, and probably all hens are red.
Looks like sex-linked breeding to me?
That’s basically how my sex links turned out, the males in sex links will be roux carriers, so I found mine were often more rosy colored than a normal Rosetta, even if they didn’t have the lacing and barring of the rosettas.
 

Coturnixxx

In the Brooder
May 10, 2021
35
18
34
Málaga, Spain
The mother looks like she is scarlet fee, so her being roux and the father being silver, that result makes perfect sense. Hens can be silver and roux, but they won’t favor the gray like the dad, they are what I describe as dusty rose:
View attachment 2877899

However, males can have 2 copies of scarlet as well as silver, and come out the same color:
View attachment 2877898

you’re best bet, is to set up a sex link program, where you have a male with 2 copies of roux, with hens that carry no roux at all. All resulting roux offspring will be females, all non roux are males.
How should I best proceed to isolate a male with two copies of roux?
Thanks!
 

FloorCandy

Crowing
Apr 15, 2020
3,520
7,109
441
I believe you had said you hatched a group with all roux females right? I would breed one of those roux hens to the male you suspect is a carrier, if he is a carrier, you should get some roux males. Males will only fully show roux if they have 2 copies, if they’re a carrier, you’ll see it sometimes when he’s young around the head and neck in particular, and if compared side by side, a roux carrier rosetta will look much more red than a rosetta that came from range and wild. So you can also breed one of the males from the group you suspected was sex link back to a parent, or if it was just eggs from someone else, pair one of the roux hens from that group back to a sibling. You will want to keep silver out of the mix at least until you are certain which males are roux carriers, because silver can make it more difficult.
 

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