Bumblefoot, New Ideas on Treatment with pictures

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Haunted55, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Haunted55

    Haunted55 Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,818
    224
    218
    Feb 15, 2012
    Central Maine
    On July 1st, I found one of my Pekin ducks with what I would consider a bad case of Bumblefoot. Both feet were involved and I'm ashamed to say, the only way I found it was she was limping. One foot had 7 and the other had 3. I was able to grab her and bring her into the house and put her into a warm bath to clean and soak. Two water changes later and softened feet, all I had time to do was paint the bumbles with colorless iodine, grabbed the wrong stuff, and put her into a dog crate in my house until I could get everything ready to operate and get them gone. Did I mention the thought of this scared me half to death?

    Sad to say it took 6 days before i was able to get everything together and someone to help out with the 'cure'. The following pictures are what we found after the bath we gave before the planned surgery to remove these things.


    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]

    As can be seen, there really wasn't much to operate on, even though I was prepared to do just that. No matter how much squeezing or prodding or soaking, there just wasn't anything more to come out, it was all on the scabs that were covering the sores. The swelling was down from the 'marbles' I saw when I first found them. I poured betadine over the ones I had opened and painted the ones that I hadn't again with the iodine and put her back into her crate with clean bedding.

    the next pictures are of the same Pekin and anothe duck, Dottie the Mallard, who was also found limping.


    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG][​IMG]

    As can be seen in the first two pictures, the bumbles have been dramatically reduced on the Pekin with just the iodine application and the smaller ones totally gone. The last four pictures are of the Mallard who is still under going the iodine applications.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    As can be seen, this is how the left and right foot look tonight on the Pekin duck. The heels being the worst are still showing infection and need for more treatment. tomorrow, I will again give a bath and pull/cut out the scabbing and treat with straight iodine this time. These spots are now flat or as flat as they should be considering the part of the foot they are on. I will still touch up the places that had the spots before as well.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. SandyK

    SandyK Chillin' With My Peeps

    388
    3
    124
    Jul 8, 2009
    Eldersburg, Maryland
    I used to use Iodine to help with the Bumblefoot in my chickens until I read an article that it was not good. Unfortunately, I didn't save the article, but just now I Googled it and found this one this one below. Since then I've changed over to Vetericyn after reading so many testimonies on how good it was for healing. Now I agree 100% and use it every time I see the first sign of Bumblefoot or any other type of wound on my girls. Hope this helps. I lost a couple of my chickens before I found this product and wish I had had it on hand to use for them.

    CUTS AND SCRAPES
    Hydrogen Peroxide, Iodine, Rubbing Alcohol, Mercurochrome

    When the skin isn’t broken, it’s hard to beat iodine for killing bacteria. That’s why doctors use it to clean an area before surgery. But when there’s a cut, says dermatologist Robert Kirsner, a spokesperson for the American Academy of Dermatology, full-strength iodine, hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol can be toxic to skin cells, impeding healing. The chemical reaction (and bubbling) that occurs when hydrogen peroxide hits the skin isn’t only cleaning the wound—it’s killing healthy cells. And that stinging from the rubbing alcohol? This stuff hurts because it’s wiping out healthy tissue.
    Putting iodine on cuts and wounds kills bacteria, says VanRooyen, but it won’t clean the wound. “You want to protect the good tissue, and iodine doesn’t do that.” Mercurochrome also kills bacteria, but as the name suggests, it contains mercury, which is toxic, and not generally recognized as safe, says the FDA. Today, doctors don’t use Mercurochrome.
    Better Bet
    Remarkably, cleansing a wound has become much simpler: “The most effective way to get rid of debris and bacteria without damaging healthy tissue is flushing the wound out with water,” says VanRooyen. Put the wound under a faucet, or spray it with the nozzle on the kitchen sink. Flush it with water to clear it of all debris. If you are worried about the bandage sticking to the wound, consider using an antibacterial ointment that contains bacitracin or neomycin to keep the area lubricated.

    Read more: http://www.rd.com/health/wellness/7-first-aid-standbys-you-should-never-use/#ixzz2ZvTKpIUw
     
  3. RussianChickens

    RussianChickens Chillin' With My Peeps

    601
    21
    121
    Jul 2, 2013
    Michigan (USA)
    I would not recommend using water as tap water can have bacteria in it that can reinfect the wound. The BEST thing to use is Sterile Saline Solution. Nothing beats that for flushing an open wound on any living creature because it is disinfecting, cleaning, and 100% sterile and natural. No animal or human will ever have a reaction to sterile saline. It is the best thing for cleaning wounds as it serves all purposes and there is no risk of damage to healthy cells or infection. You can even use contact solution or make your own saline sense it is basically glorified salt water. Approx 4 table spoons of salt per quart is what I and my local vet use in a pinch.


    I had a horse of mine tear a flap of skin of the back of his flexor tendon. The tendon was exposed and the flap hung down about 2 inches. I cleaned twice daily with Sterile Saline Solution ONLY (no antibiotic or anything like such. Just saline.) and wrapped the wound with a extra large band aid pad so the flap was in place. Despite even my vet saying that he would lose the flap and be left with a permanent large scar I managed to heal it completely without losing any of the flap and you can not see the scar as it is small an covered by above hair. He had no infection, no healthy tissue loss, and no reactions. I will never clean a different way again. You can use antibiotic ointment but I did not use anything but saline on the horse as the lower extremities on equines often develop proud flesh when other things are used. Ointment wont do this to a bird.
     
  4. Haunted55

    Haunted55 Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,818
    224
    218
    Feb 15, 2012
    Central Maine
    I've also read that peroxide can cause pre-cancerous changes in skin cells. Then I wonder how we've made it this far with all of these 'bad' things in our lives. I get an infection in a cut, the first thing I reach for is peroxide. To my mind, it doesn't matter if I lose a few healthy skin cells, the infection is already killing a lot more than the peroxide is going to take.

    Since the actions here are not to cleanse the wound per say, but to kill the infection causing the bumble and to draw any deep seated infection to the top, the iodine is working wonderfuly well. With the first application, the iodine had shrunk the bumble to half it's original size and with the smaller ones, gotten rid of them completly. In 6 days. No other treatment except the first bath and iodine.
     
  5. Haunted55

    Haunted55 Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,818
    224
    218
    Feb 15, 2012
    Central Maine
    RussianChickens, I totally agree with you about the saline solution and have a saline nasal spray in my med kit for just that reason. To your recipe for the saline solution, if you add 1/8 tsp of baking soda, you've buffered it and can then use it in the eyes without causing pain.
     
  6. Haunted55

    Haunted55 Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,818
    224
    218
    Feb 15, 2012
    Central Maine
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/805766/swelling-on-ducks-toe-picture-urgent/90#post_11721832

    I would really like you to read the above thread I have linked to. I have not had the time to finish adding all of my info and pictures to this thread here, but have taken what time I have had to respond to the link above.

    I appreciate that you took the time to write down the information about the procedure for treating bumblefoot as you know it. I too was all set up to start doing the same thing as well as whatever necessary cutting was going to be involved. If you go back and read my first posting, you will see this was kind of a strange thing all around. This was an accidental finding. When I was finally able to get it done, there wasn't much to do as the iodine had taken care of most of the infection without soaking and all of the extra work most of us have been led to believe is necessary. I really do hope you'll take the time to go and read through the thread above, I think it may show you that first, I am not a quack [yuck, yuck], I do have an extensive background in dealing with medical issues and that the health of my birds and animals and anyone elses is upper most in my mind at all times.

    One other thing I'd like to point out here. While going to an Avian Vet is what all of us would like to do, some of us just can't do that. Lot's and lots of reasons for that as well. Some like myself, do not have that option available to us. Cripes...I don't even have a regular Vet who will see poultry! We are talking over 100 miles of highway travel to see a Vet who will see a chicken and they don't see ducks, etc.. Some of us just couldn't afford a Vet, even if they lived right next door. Everyones circumstances are different and we all know it would be a wonderful world if we all could count on someone else to take care of our animals for us. In reality, it just doesn't work that way.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Blackberry Hill

    Blackberry Hill Chillin' With My Peeps

    83
    8
    66
    Jul 11, 2013
    USA
    This is in reply to the FIRST post. I gave this a "thumbs up" as one of the best approaches to foot bumbles that I've seen here so far. I think the photos are excellent and educational to anyone wondering what the heck are bumbles. I do know that a less invasive procedure such as this far exceeds any "surgery" at home that involves cutting into the foot.

    I know we all want whatever is best for our furry, scaly or feathery friends (that includes over 10 species at my farm), so please think twice, think ten times before you cut into a bumble. There are less invasive methods available.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2014
  8. Blackberry Hill

    Blackberry Hill Chillin' With My Peeps

    83
    8
    66
    Jul 11, 2013
    USA
    I have seen a lot of questions and discussion here and in other threads on the merits of hydrogen peroxide vs. iodine vs. this or that. I will put up an outline of antiseptics and antibiotics along with when they should be used. Hopefully, it will serve as a handy chart so perhaps an article would be more concise and reach more people than posting it here. If anyone has any questions before I get it written, feel free to contact me.
     
  9. Blackberry Hill

    Blackberry Hill Chillin' With My Peeps

    83
    8
    66
    Jul 11, 2013
    USA
    RE: Russian Chickens use of sterile saline solution --- You are correct in your use of this except on two points. One is that Sterile Saline Solution has NO disinfectant properties. (I am reading the ingredients.) Two is that if you make it yourself, then it's not sterile. You could boil distilled bottled water or tap water then let it cool completely and add salt to use to irrigate a wound. But neither will be 100% sterile unless you store them in a sterile container. Distilled water itself isn't sterile per se it just has impurities removed via distillation.

    Glad to hear about your horse. It's a perfect example of how with help an animal's own immune system can heal a wound. It's good he had you!

    RE: Haunted --- For the eyes, I would never use ANYTHING but Sterile Saline Solution or ophthalmic ointments. Better safe than sorry.
     
  10. Blackberry Hill

    Blackberry Hill Chillin' With My Peeps

    83
    8
    66
    Jul 11, 2013
    USA
    Yes, I have bandaged many feet. A man who lives 3 miles down the road, well, last time I asked how many birds he had he said over 50. Guess who does his Vet work? As for the bandage, use 2" x 2 " gauze pads with Vet Wrap. Takes practice. Without an Elizabethan collar, most animals will get their bandages off. You have to weigh the stress caused by the collar over the wound becoming uncovered. I will not use the collar unless they have an incision with stitches.

    With bumbles, keeping the ducks feet clean & dry is a chore. It takes work and dedication. You need an area where you can spread hay or straw or grass clippings large enough to keep the duck (or other bird), their food and water. A companion would be nice, too. I put the birds into a crate, clean the pen and then check the birds wounds before returning them to the pen. TWICE a day. (Make sure the area is predator proof and the duck has enough water to dunk his head.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2014
    1 person likes this.

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by