buttercup gene and redquill coloration

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by centrarchid, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    I am trying to restore the red quill component of my American game flock through a variety of measures. One is to select using birds I already have. Two hens out of 17 birds (male and female) exhibit the red quill phenotype. Roughly half of roosters are brown breasted brown-red and balance are wild-type. In my flock, red quill colored chicks show up only as result of brown breasted brown-red roosters being bred to red quill hens. Brown breasted brown-reds as roosters easiest to tell from red quill roosters as chicks through end of second immature feather set. Chicks of former look like wild-type except overall down coloration lighter, dorsal stripes lighter and narrower. Second method will be through introduction of red quill birds from outside flocks, impart to enhance disease resistance. As I understand it, with help from VCOMB, a key component of the red quill phenotype is the butter cup gene. Based on my limited records, the buttercup gene is recessive which apears to be in agreement with VCOMB. Also based on limited records where brown breasted brown-reds are bred to wild-type (in my case red jungle hens), the brown breasted brown-red allele dominates phenotype. Is it likely some of my wild-type males and females (balance of flock) also carry buttercup gene but it is not evident unless bird also brown breasted brown-red? If they are carrying the buttercup allele, sometimes in homozygous form, then will it manifest in phenotype in manner I can detect?
     
  2. flowerchild59

    flowerchild59 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Wow, I am impressed you can even type that stuff..........way over my head but I fell asleep in genetics class 30 years ago and OBVIOUSLY did not retain a thing.
     
  3. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:Flowerchild59,

    Just because I can type out does not mean I have a handle on what I mean. Still confused about what is going on.

    I went to SIUC for a while. Did not realize anyone did much with chickens.




    Something interesting as I watch developement of chicks. I wing banded them and made notes on coloration at that time. I also know parentage. At least one chick derived from mating between red quill hen and brown breasted brown-red that showed the lighter pattern typical for brown breasted brown-red appears to be developing into a red quill color pattern. If correct it will be a lighter base pattern.
     
  4. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Red quill in games would be e+ plus Db (or sometimes het columbian Co/co+).
    The males should look like a gold/red blacktail.

    The buttercup gene e^bc is probably the same as the brown e^b gene. It is recessive, yes, but i.m.o. not necessary for red quill plumage.
    The Db gene is dominant, especially in males; the hens may need 2 copies for best effect.
    The other kind (het Co/co+) would not breed true, giving pure columbian hens (Co/Co) and wildtype hens (co+/co+) along with the pseudo red quills (Co/co+).
    In roosters het and pure Co would look similar.

    True autosomal barring is e^b plus Db and Pg (pattern gene)
     
  5. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Males are red with black tail in both brown breasted brown-red and redquill. Latter has pattern in feathers and darker mottled appearance as chick. I think autosomal barring gene is recessive so denoting with pg rather Pg. Wildtype for barring allele is pg+.

    Some confusion evident for games as to nature of red quill, ginger and pumpkin phenotypes and use of terms used by given parties. Latter does not breed true and not situation with my version so that does not support het columbian Co/co+. The base coloration I am dealing with is dominant to wild-type e+ so Db likely the locus and allele involved.


    Phentoypes and genotypes I may be dealing with.
    Wild-type for all alleles (e+/e+/db+/db+/pg+/pg+), wild-type phenotype carring barring allele (e+/e+/db+/db+/pg+/pg) may not be distinguishable

    Brown Breasted Brown-Red (e+/e+/Db/Db/pg+/pg+), (e+/e+/Db/Db/pg+/pg), (e+/e+/Db/db+/pg+/pg+), (e+/e+/Db/db+/pg/pg+)

    Red Quill (e+/e+/Db/db+/pg/pg) or (e+/e+/Db/Db/pg/pg)

    This would be a system that is simple and yeilds only the phenotypes I see.
     
  6. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Pattern gene is known for its lacing effects (concentric penciling, doubkle lacing, single lacing) and the consensus is that it is dominant Pg.
     
  7. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:I will test. When looking at red quill feathers at individual level, marking appears to be a crescent. Does a single lacing appear as such?
     
  8. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    For single lacing you need additional Ml and Co
    For double lacing additional Ml only
    For concentric lacing in good quality you need pure Pg/Pg
     

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