Can someone explain to me how this happens?

Discussion in 'What Breed Or Gender is This?' started by yeswehave8, Aug 30, 2014.

  1. yeswehave8

    yeswehave8 Out Of The Brooder

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    Hello again!

    So our 5 out of 6 of our French Marans that turned out to be roosters were returned to the breeder today. They did finally respond to our messages and "did the right thing", which was nice. They said they did not have enough French Maran hens to trade out, but we said we were fine as long as we got hens and not roos. Ironically, our boys started to find their voices only today when we were trying to gather them for transport. They followed us around the breeder's yard and even back to our car. :( It was bittersweet!

    Anyway, the breeder claims ALL of these hens came out of the same Black Copper French Maran lines as the 6 we had. Out of the 6 we brought home today:

    2 are clearly barred rocks (one w. white legs, the other yellow)
    one is all red (cinnamon?) with black points similar to where the red would be on the French Marans
    one is completely white with no markings other than a red comb
    one is almost completely black
    2 look like the other French Marans, except one has almost a leopard-ish speckling to her chest (this one I have slight worries may still be a roo).

    I know they can breed in with others and all, but is it not unusual to get such different markings on "siblings"? He had no adults that looked like some of these birds and the ONLY other breed I saw out there was a silkie rooster. And the legs, too. Two have yellow legs, but are completely different looking birds.

    Sorry, I am very new to this, still. I will try to get pictures, as I know that helps!

    Thanks for indulging my incessant curiosity!
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  2. donrae

    donrae Hopelessly Addicted Premium Member

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    Well, looking at your cockerels you first posted about, it's obvious there the breeder wasn't a serious breeder. Now, I'm not a Marans person, but I do know that any decent bred bird should look pretty much identical to others of it's breed, at least as far as color and markings. Your cockerels were all over the place with the amount of red/copper, some with minimal, some with the entire chest and wings colored. But, what you're describing aren't Marans at all. Black is a pretty dominant color, so getting any color but black means they aren't really breeding BCMs.

    Barring is not recessive, so at least one parent of the barred birds had to be barred. If they're both pullets, it had to be the father, because barring is sex linked. The yellow-legged bird may indeed be a Rock, or just a mixed breed. The white legged bird could be a cuckoo Marans, or again just a mixed breed barred bird.

    The red with black points sounds like a New Hampshire or something similar.

    Awaiting pics. I'm glad they got you set up with hens, sorry you're having such a hard time. Really, it shouldn't be so hard to get a couple hens to keep in the yard, should it?
     
  3. yeswehave8

    yeswehave8 Out Of The Brooder

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    It really should not be so hard... and I've already decided that this local "breeder" pretty much just lets them randomly do what they do. In the grand scheme for US it doesn't matter too much, as we really just want some fresh eggs and some girls to keep in the yard. I also am seriously already dubious of his roo spotting abilities. The more I eyeball this one guy, the more roo he looks to me. [​IMG] Top picture, far right? I looked at him at the guy's house, too, and was already pegging him for another roo.

    [​IMG]

    Barred rock-ish, right? Pullets?

    [​IMG]

    A little worried about this one, too, the red one. Any ideas?

    [​IMG]

    the front portion of the roo-ish BCM which has a cool leopard speckling look. If he's not a roo, he will be a lovely hen!

    [​IMG]

    this is his rear end... are those not saddle feathers?

    [​IMG]
    Here "he" is again... or is it indeed a fancy pullet?

    [​IMG]

    I tried to get good pics, but they are all very skittish of me yet.

    [​IMG]

    There is the nearly full black one.

    [​IMG]
    the yellow footed barred rock-ish

    [​IMG]

    Trying to get the red one (Lucy) and the white one in pics
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. donrae

    donrae Hopelessly Addicted Premium Member

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    Do you know how old they're supposed to be? I'm not sure if the barred Rock and the white bird are cockerels, or just more developed pullets.

    The most bcm looking bird is a pullet. If you compare her to the birds you took back, you can see the difference in the coloring, mostly on the wings. Those boys had big patches of red/copper leakage on the wings, she does not. She's also not as leggy looking, smaller comb, and just has a feminine look to her. I agree she's going to be a looker [​IMG]

    Do the white bird and the white-legged barred bird have lightly feathered legs?

    I'd just keep an eye on the two bigger combed birds. Some pullets just mature faster, and that may be the case here. You'll know in a few weeks, either way.
     
  5. yeswehave8

    yeswehave8 Out Of The Brooder

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    The white one does have feathered legs. I have to go look at the white legged barred one again. What does that mean?

    As far as age, I'm not 100% sure anymore. The ones we took back were about 20 weeks, I think.

    Help me learn, What are you seeing on the white and barred rock one to worry about?
     
  6. BantamLover21

    BantamLover21 Overrun With Chickens

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    Both of your barred birds are looking like cockerels to me. The white one may be, too. However, I'm pretty sure the others are pullets.
     
  7. yeswehave8

    yeswehave8 Out Of The Brooder

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    Great! [​IMG] I don't think this guy could pick a pullet to save his life! LOL!!!

    Can you tell me why you think that? I am really trying to learn. Are there any "tells" here I should be looking for? Is it the feathered legs? The red combs? Help out a newbie. :)
     
  8. donrae

    donrae Hopelessly Addicted Premium Member

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    Feathered legs would only mean the bird might have some Marans ancestry, just to help sort out what breed who is.

    The barred birds and the white bird just have larger, redder combs when compared to the other two. I'm not getting a huge rooster vibe from them, but not knowing age it's hard to tell. They could be hens reaching point of lay, or they could be young cockerels. Sure wish I could be more definitive for you. The first batch were easy to spot!
     
  9. RoosterLew

    RoosterLew Chillin' With My Peeps

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    One thing to remember in cross bred birds is that just because they came from the same parents or breeds does not mean they will look even similar.
    I say this because you Asked if siblings should look the same.
    Every variety of a breed has a set of genes that make them that breed and that variety. Some of these genes, such as sex linked barring, are just that, sex linked.
     
  10. RoosterLew

    RoosterLew Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Oops...I hit send lol.

    When you cross breed, the off spring are getting half of the genes from one parent and half from the other.
    Some of the genes have modifying effects on others, some have dosage effects, some are dominant and others are not.
    Your crossed offspring can all have different gene sets from the same parents.
    One example- so you have a black rooster and hatch 2 chicks from him and a blue hen. That blue hen has only one copy of the "blue" gene, or she wouldn't be blue, she would be splash! If she gave the blue gene to one chick and not the other, one will be blue and one black!!
    On the same note, some of those birds may be carrying genes that are hidden by the presence of others, if the chick gets the hidden gene and does not get the gene that was hiding it...they will show the hidden gene.

    As to the question of how do you get so many different birds from a single "line"....you don't!!
    I would say you are dealing with either an unscrupulous or unknowing breeder. A "line" of birds are all the same breed and Variety!
     

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