Cary Chicken Ban

Discussion in 'Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances (and how to change' started by manfre, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. manfre

    manfre Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Cary, NC
    As already mentioned in another topic, a couple in Cary (my wife and I) are trying to get the town to reduce its ban on chickens.

    The topic is on the agenda for this Thursday's meeting. My wife and I plan on talking in support of this during the "Public Speaks Out" portion of the meeting. Later in the meeting, they will decide whether to investigate this or drop it. If anyone on here lives in or has friends in Cary, we encourage you to show up to the council meeting to show support, or at the very least email the council. I have heard from my rep that there has been very few support emails after the story was on WRAL, but a few people who were against it (from what I can tell, purely ignorant reasons).
     
  2. manfre

    manfre Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Cary, NC
    I don't think it would hurt if the town received emails from people in the areas surrounding the town or were "considering" moving to the area. [​IMG]
     
  3. manfre

    manfre Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Cary, NC
    It does not look hopeful. This is part of an email response from one of the council members to a person in support of chickens.

    That said, I have to be very candid with you the feedback rec’d by all Council Members has been overwhelming in NOT pursuing this initiative.

    Comments such as the following are typical of the feedback rec’d:

    Please do not support the proposed ordinance amendment at this time for the following reasons:

    Noise, smells, and the potential for disease.

    Homeowners associations prohibit keeping chickens - only those in older neighborhoods without HOA's would be able to keep chickens. Let’s keep it the same for everyone.

    How would the Town of Cary "police" this issue particularly if folks choose to keep more chickens than would be allowed? For every 5 homes that would follow the rules, expect to see 2 or 3 that wouldn't.

    What if some folks choose to raise chickens to eat instead of just for eggs? Would they slaughter them in their backyard? Would that be allowed?

    Cary has become the world class community it is over the years without allowing chickens - we see no compelling reason to change that at this time.

    Chickens belong on a farm, not in the city.

    I truly look forward to the discussion tonight and how it transpires. My expectation is the Council majority will prefer to keep the status quo (but I’ve been wrong on my hunched before) and I’m not sure I disagree with that.

    It's very frustrating to know that intelligent well written emails are negated by such illogical and moronic arguments.​
     
  4. manfre

    manfre Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Cary, NC
    In a 3:4 decision, the town council has decided that having a staff committee look in to allowing chickens in Cary was not worth staff time. I'm not sure if it is a coincidence, but all of the female council voted for and all of the male council voted against.
     
  5. AuntieRoo

    AuntieRoo Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 24, 2008
    This is so unfortunate! Those emails against chickens are rediculous and inaccurate. I can't help but respond to the emails that were sent opposing chickens in the fine town of Cary. I hope that I do not get into trouble for posting my thoughts on this issue.

    Those against chickens claimed...

    Noise, smells, and the potential for disease.

    Rebuttal: Oh you mean like dog poop or distemper and rabies, fleas, ticks, barking for hours, howling, bites, attacks on people, chasing cars, destroying property and killing cats? Oh, wait, that's dogs. Sorry.

    Homeowners associations prohibit keeping chickens - only those in older neighborhoods without HOA's would be able to keep chickens. Let’s keep it the same for everyone.

    Rebuttal: Okay, so the older homes can park on the street, better stop that. Oh and the older homes don't have house paint color requirements, better change that too. Oh and the older homes don't have uniform landscaping requirements,better fix that too, oops the older homes don't have outrageous square footage requirements, can't have that...Oh well, maybe older homes should just be outlawed. The older homes sure do cause a lot of troubles for those new homes. It's just not fair that some people get to live in older homes!

    How would the Town of Cary "police" this issue particularly if folks choose to keep more chickens than would be allowed? For every 5 homes that would follow the rules, expect to see 2 or 3 that wouldn't.

    Rebuttal: Just curious how they come up with the ratio for the percent of chicken owners who would not adhere to the proposed chicken law? Are they saying that 3 out of every 5 chicken owners are dishonest?! Oh my! that is quite offensive! As to how chicken laws would be policed? I suppose the fine citizens of Carey could have their butlers dial the local animal control office and inform them that the Clampets seems to have one too many chickens along with their 20 dogs and 40 cats?

    What if some folks choose to raise chickens to eat instead of just for eggs? Would they slaughter them in their backyard? Would that be allowed?

    Rebuttal: Well of course! You wouldn't want them to get blood all over the inside of their old house would you?

    Cary has become the world class community it is over the years without allowing chickens - we see no compelling reason to change that at this time.

    Rebuttal: A little history lesson straight from the Cary city website...

    A settlement called Bradford's Ordinary began in 1750 in what is now Cary. However, the man credited with founding Cary was Allison Francis "Frank" Page, who was its first developer, mayor, postmaster and railroad agent. (Sheesh! This guy ran the whole town!)
    Page and his wife, Catherine "Kate" Raboteau Page bought 300 acres here in 1854. He named his development after Samuel Fenton Cary, a prohibition leader from Ohio. (Kinda odd, don't you think? If I was Mrs. Cary I'd be a bit put off by that!) Cary was incorporated in 1871, several years after the Seaboard and North Carolina railroads formed a junction in Cary...

    Okay, after picturing the lovely story above, I am certain that back in the 1700's through the 1800's the fine people of Cary did not own chickens on their "settlements". I'm thinking that they just took a lovely jaunt over to the world class retail outlets to purchase thier gourmet foods?

    Chickens belong on a farm, not in the city.

    Rebuttal:This one was the hardest rebuttal of all. The person who wrote this super intelligent statement has got to be from one of the fine universities that grace the Cary area. As the Cary city website states..."More than two-thirds of adults hold a college degree. Nearly 9 in 10 citizens have access to the Internet in this, the Technology Town of North Carolina." Do you suppose the genious who wrote this statement found this brilliant fact while researching on that new fangled technology they call the internet?[​IMG] I suppose you could say that chickens belong on the farm, not in the city... or you could say that red paint belongs on barns and not on front doors or accent walls, toothpicks are for picking teeth and not for picking up hor dourves at cocktail parties, SUV's are Sport Utility Vehicles and are not to be made into luxury Cadilacs, Hummers are also not to be used as a luxury car as they are obviously meant for military use, dogs belong outside on the farm too and not in the house or on the furniture or wearing those silly outfits or eating those gourmet doggy treats or riding in your luxury SUV...

    Just wanted to add that the other week I saw a very classy looking older lady browsing in A Barnes and Noble Bookstore with two lop eared bunnies walking on leashes. I can just imagine how something like that might throw the fine town of Cary into a tizzy! Why, bunnies don't belong in Barnes and Noble, they belong on the farm! What if that woman decided to slaughter her bunnies inside the Barnes and Noble?!!! Would that be allowed?!!! ...Sorry, LOL
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  6. cjeanean

    cjeanean Can't Decide

    Mar 5, 2008
    Missouri
    You should see if there's a way to reconsider, and show them some photos of the clean, neat, and tidy setups that a lot of people on here have. If all else fails check into the 'garbage can coop'.....LOL, j/k....don't do anything illegal! How many chickens are you wanting to keep? There is no smell if things are kept neat and DRY, and the city could have a 5 chicken rule with no roosters. There isn't much noise, either. Diseases are practically non existent in backyard flocks due to the fact that backyard flock owners pay more attention to their chickens. The hometown value of raising chickens is priceless, it teaches your children to value their food sources and how to care for animals. As far as butchering goes the ordinance could state that no backyard butchering is allowed, that all butchering must be done professionally (although I doubt that anyone would raise just 5 chickens to be butchered, usually people raise more than 10 at a time) by either a certified butcher or a private individual outside city limits. For the people breaking the ordinance and owning more than the allowed number of chickens, I would love to see where the evidence is for that. That excuse is not even remotely legitimate, and holds absolutely NO water. Regardless of homeowners associations, a pretty little chicken coop all decorated and everything won't do anything to property values, especially if built in a way that makes it easily removed. Only the snobbiest of neighbors will complain, and if anyone's that uptight they can go ahead and leave. Dogs can present more problems that chickens. Poop in the yards, digging, tearing apart houses, etc. Chickens stay in one little area and keep to themselves. The grass won't get worn away, either, if you have a chicken tractor that can be moved around your yard each day. There is no reason why they cannot allow a pet chicken. What about pet mice? If they get loose they terrorize the whole neighborhood! A world class neighborhood is a place that allows reason and common sense to rule. Reason states that a person can have a pet, and a pet chicken is no different than having a pet dog or cat. Some people have 5 or 6 cats, why is it so different to have 5 or 6 chickens? Chickens are prettier, anyway. Is there someone around you who can bring a mild tempered, well behaved and diapered chicken to show the council?

    Chickens are not just farm animals, either. There are a lot of animals that originated on the farm, ESPECIALLY dogs and cats. Even mice LOL! Just because dogs and cats are considered more common does not mean they don't belong on the farm. Cats and dogs love large areas to roam, and they can't get that in the city. Cats love stalking mice, dogs love romping around. Chickens may be common on the farm, but that does not mean the cannot be in the city as well. Large numbers of chickens should be confined to farm life, but not because they don't belong in the city, only because they need larger areas to be comfortable. A few chickens here and there are fine, in the city or not. If the fine for not adhering to the chicken ordinance is substantial, many people won't have a problem obeying. Otherwise the city gets to make a ton of money off the disobediant chicken owners, which shouldn't make them upset. Last time I checked cities LOVE fining people!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  7. manfre

    manfre Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Cary, NC
    Sadly, the arguments against were not based upon logic or community feedback. Council member Don Frantz clearly stated something along the lines of, "I am going to vote this down because regardless of the recommendations returned by staff, I would not support this." I have strong suspicions that many of the complaints I posted above were actually from Don Frantz. The email snippet was a response from council member Jack Smith to a member of the community. Don mentioned several of them, almost word for word without looking at papers or his laptop.

    Statements from council member Ervin Portman saying, "Chickens are not Cary" and "the town was not able to enforce the 2 dog and cat ordinance, which is why it was changed." I read two main points from the second statement, (1) I should just illegally keep chickens because they won't be able to enforce it, (2) if enough people are violating an ordinance the town council will remove it.

    Council member Jack Smith stated how he did not support the idea of chickens in Cary despite sponsoring the motion towards the council. He claimed to have received mainly negative emails, but was countered by Council member Gale Adcock who said, "I received the opposite email response with 5 to 1 in support".

    The argument "Cary has become the world class community it is over the years without allowing chickens - we see no compelling reason to change that at this time" is on par with previous arguments throughout America's history.

    The USA has become the world class country it is over the years without...
    * women's suffrage
    * the Emancipation Proclamation
    * desegregation
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  8. mango1612

    mango1612 Out Of The Brooder

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Raleigh, NC
    Ugh...Sounds like 'typical' Cary behavior. (As in, it doesn't always make a lot of sense...). And if you live in an HOA that doesn't allow chickens...you can't have chickens--that makes sense to me, you live in an HOA and you unfortunately agree to follow some of their foolish ideas. They shouldn't ban them city (er-town?) wide because of that. Ridiculous.
     
  9. CatawbaCoops

    CatawbaCoops Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 6, 2008
    Wake Forest, NC
    Shame about the vote last week. It doesn't even seem that the commissioners were interested in educating themselves about urban chickens. Fortunately for us here in Wake Forest, we've done a fine job of voting in progressive commissioners who care about more than just tax dollars and property values.
     
  10. CatawbaCoops

    CatawbaCoops Out Of The Brooder

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    Jul 6, 2008
    Wake Forest, NC
    Cary chickens out of allowing poultry
    Smell, predators cited as concerns
    Adam Arnold, The Cary NewsComment on this story
    The chickens won't come home to roost in Cary. At least not literally.

    Cary's Town Council turned down an idea, by a 4-3 vote, to look into allowing laying hens throughout the town. The decision came near the end of a meeting that stretched nearly until the cock crowed Friday morning.

    Jack Smith said he had been approached with the idea by Cary resident Alissa Manfre. The item made it to the council agenda after Gail Adcock seconded Smith's request for discussion.

    At the meeting, Adcock moved to have town staff look into the pros and cons of allowing the birds before the council reached a final decision.

    "So whichever way we go it's based on evidence," Adcock said.

    Smith, along with Mayor Harold Weinbrecht, Erv Portman and Don Frantz kept the motion from taking flight.

    "Is it really Cary?" Smith asked.

    Several hours before the council discussion began, Manfre, who does not have chickens, used the Public Speaks Out portion of the meeting for avian advocacy.


    Her concept for an ordinance would forbid roosters to limit noise, allow only six to 10 hens, ban backyard slaughter and impose a permitting fee to cover possible animal-control expenditures.

    Benefits from the birds include better eggs, pest con trol, weed reduction, reduced fuel consumption and lower food costs, Manfre said.

    Chickens also eat ticks and weeds, she said, and keeping them on premises means fewer trips to the grocery store.

    "It's simply cheaper to produce your own organic eggs," Manfre said. Her estimates put the cost at $2 a dozen instead of $5 a dozen at a grocery store.

    "They're also kind of fun pets," Manfre said.

    Julie Robison was intrigued and said during the discussion that she might agree to the proposal.

    "I would like to have fresher eggs," Robison said.

    Beyond any ordinance change, the major hurdle for Robison to gather feathered friends, and likely for many other Cary residents, would have been getting the blessing of her homeowners association, she said.

    Other council members pecked away at the proposal.

    "We do allow chickens in Cary" in areas that allow homes on 40,000-square-foot lots, Portman said. "I don't think we should expand it."

    Frantz just didn't care after being cooped up with his colleagues at the meeting that had already run six hours.


    "It's just kind of a Pandora's box I don't want to open," said Frantz, who cited smell, noise and predators as possible side effects of allowing the birds.

    He also had concerns about parents dealing with children who might unexpectedly witness a neighbor's layer being turned into a broiler.

    "Quite frankly the only chicken I want to see is in the frozen-food section of the grocery store or on a plate right in front of me, because it's 12:30 [a.m.] and I'm starving."

    Sorry... we can't listen to you. We have a late night date with the IHOP... sad sad behavior.​
     

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