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Cat Questions-Bladder Stones/Calcium oxolate Monohydrate

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by ThornyRidge, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. ThornyRidge

    ThornyRidge Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a 10.5 year old male DSH neutered cat who was diagnosed with bladder stones and had a cystology (removal of 3 bb sized stones from his bladder ) 3 weeks ago.. he is well on the way to recovery however upon doing internet research and talking to vet I am very concerned with this.. some background on cat: he is always been indoors from time of kitten, only ever fed Iams kitten and now Iams adult cat food (dry) with periodic cans of wet food. Daily fresh water, neutered, this past summer I started noticing frequency in urination (many many trips to litter box and producing next to nothing) there was never visible blood in urine/litter box andhe never acted like he was in pain or cried during this time.. after numerous trips to vet/antibiotics, bloodwork and finally x-rays he was found to have the 3 stones.. now up until this point he has had no problems ever. I had the stone sent to Minnesota urolith lab for analysis and it came back as this calcium oxolate.. vet said that these are very much hard to prevent and no guarantee of them not returning.. I am just concerned over this and don't want to have to put him through surgery multiple times.. the vet also recommended a vet prescribed food (Hills diet c/d) I believe the aim is to reduce liklihood of reoccurance.. it is very pricey and who knows if I am even going to be able to get him to eat this.. has anyone else went through this and have any advice.. sorry so long but wanted you to get picture..
     
  2. Livinzoo

    Livinzoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Neutered males tend to be most prone to crystals.

    I'm not sure your up to the way my friend and I both solved our problem. It is a diet change, less costly than what the vet wants you to buy. But requires more time on your behalf. But is the best food for your cat.

    We both switched to raw feeding. I switched about 6 years ago. She switched about 4. Since than neither of us have had a reoccurance.

    We use the recipe in the book Raising cats naturally by Michelle Bernard. It is a great book. Here is a link http://www.raisingcatsnaturally.com/

    I
    bought a meat grinder for about $100 and got a plate for it that makes large chunky pieces. I switched 7 cats onto it and only one was difficult to switch.

    If you need help with switch, the recipe or anything let me know.
     
  3. MrsCountryChick

    MrsCountryChick Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I too have a cat that has had a total of 3 urinary tract infections in his life. (he is a neutered male who is 10 yrs old). The last time he had small grain crystals with his urinary tract infection & the vet recommended the same cat food to me (Hills Diet c/d). At that appointment we got 3 cans...... (ended up he would rather starve than eat any of it). [​IMG] But the vet said that a cat food that is specially for urinary tract health is recommended to give him & also alternate with moist food. The moist cat food helps him to put more moisture into him so he's not just eating concentrated dry food. And Thank God, he's been doing good ever since. But when I do give him moist food he would rather eat the gravy than the moist food, so I add some hot water to his bowl with the moist food (& let it sit in his bowl before feeding it to him so it cools & warms the food itself). That way he gets warm food, plus it's a way to 'trick' him into having more water intake. [​IMG]

    The vet also said if he was to continue to get crystals the could potentially get a blockage & need emergency surgery. But I've heard how while removing crystals they can widen the urethra so he would Never have that problem again. Did they do this for your cat during surgery? I've also read how male cats have a smaller urethra that makes it more likely that they get them more than females. [​IMG]

    I've read it's also good to keep the litter as clean as possible so the cat doesn't hesitate to urinate when they have to, so eliminating often helps to keep crystals from forming. I've always strived to keep the litter as clean as possible with daily cleanings, but since I have multiple cats (he is my oldest) I opted to change my litter to the New Tidy Cat Breeze Litter System. It uses ceramic pellets that allow the urine to drain down thru the pellets onto a super absorbent oder controlling pad. I have 2 for my multiple cats & it works GREAT. I LOVE how it controls the urine smell WONDERFULLY. I scoop the 'solids' daily & have no problem with a smell of any kind. [​IMG] Walmart is the cheapest on the system & pellets & pads. The website for the system is here: www.breezeforcats.com & here is where they have a fill-in form for a $10.00 coupon: http://www.breezeforcats.com/systemCouponForm.html?CMP=ILC-BRZ-BRZ-Save10&HWQ=Breeze

    I
    personally have 2 Breeze systems & I switch the tray att he end of day 2 of the pad (meaning alternate the tray so the urine will be in a new area of the pad) --(the pad is made to come full out to be turned around, or when changed). & I put a new pad at the end of day 4. But I have multiple cats & this is what I've found is best for my cats. It's SO Worth it not not Dread the litter cleaning & have a system that makes both us & our cats Happy. [​IMG]
     
  4. freemotion

    freemotion Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I agree with MrsCountryChick on the litter box....we use The World's Best Cat Litter....aka The World's Most Expensive Cat Litter....since it is what keeps my two big cats using their two boxes. Both with urinary issues.

    I soooo agree with Livinzoo about the raw diet. Your vet may freak....but my vet told me they only get an hour of nutrition in vet school, which consists of a rep from the pet food industry telling them to recommend any major brand, they are all balanced and complete, and people shouldn't mess with their pet's diets, dire consequences will ensue.

    That is crap. I could go on and on, but the end of the story is that my house animals....two cats and a dog....are all alive today ONLY because they are off commercial diets, including Hills and Iams, and on homemade diets. They are thriving so much, that my vet asked me to lecture to her clients and do private consultations for people willing to do the same. I have and I do!

    My dog is on raw and my cats are on cooked....I gave up too quickly on raw, and they are old now, but any new cats or dogs that we get will go right on a raw diet. But I make all my own cat food, and can or freeze it myself, about once a month.

    It is worth it, and you CAN do it! We'll support ya!
     
  5. HennysMom

    HennysMom Keeper of the Tiara

    Yep - have to agree, definately cat food plays a huge role in those stones with male cats.

    My cat has issues and we watch him like a hawk. He's on a special diet not only for his kidneys but try having a cat that has a food obsession [​IMG] - yes - he's OCD and its HORRIBLE! He will grab the spoon or fork out of your hand (literally) to get food...its rather annoying.

    If you cant get the RX food from your vet and decide to make your own, just make sure you are giving the correct amounts that they need for protein, fiber, calcium, etc. Too much protein will damage the kidneys further. Cats are soooo hard to make food for given their urinary systems and dietary needs. Also - have to agree about the litter also - I use the clumping sand and mix it with the regular clay (so it doesnt stick to my cats feet - it works great btw) I have a Norwegian Forest Cat, very large breed - like a Maine Coon - so he requires a multi-cat sized litter box. I use a 48 oz. cup for the scoop and put in 6 cup fulls of sand and 2 cup fulls of clay - it lasts me about 8-9 days before I have to completely change it out, but I have to scoop it daily because he does not like a dirty cat box at all. As soon as he goes and it hardens - he wants it OUT of that box or he wont use it. Has to be clean at all times, he's very picky - most cats are.

    Good luck with your kitty, I hope he feels better soon.
     
  6. tellynpeep

    tellynpeep Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I am a vet. Please be careful what advice you get online or from well-intentioned friends. Calcium Oxalate stones are NOT the same as the Struvite stones and crystals many cats get (Magnesium ammonium phosphate.) They need different diets and different pH to prevent them.
    If you do a raw diet, PLEASE research it carefully and consult with veterinarians who are familiar with this. Cats do need higher protein levels than dogs. Raw diets often harbor Salmonella and other pathogens; be especially careful if you have children or immunosuppressed adults in the house. Extra extra careful not to pass anything between the cat and the chickens!

    Good luck
     
  7. freemotion

    freemotion Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks for your input, Tellynpeep. I hope I did not offend with my remark on nutrition edu, I was quoting my vet, who is on a journey to being more holistic.

    I work with people doctors and other health professionals on setting up wellness options for their patients. This is the wave of the future. It also means that many people, especially us boomers, want the same for their pets. So if the health professionals, human or animal, are not open to it, people will take it into their own hands and not tell their hp's. Human studies bear this out. I personally think this is dangerous, (most people think herbal and natural and organic means 100% safe....but guess what, poison ivy is herbal, natural, and usually organic!) and take every opportunity to "preach" and try to win health professionals over, to at least open their minds and do the research that is not offered in med school (all too influenced by big pharma.)

    Ranting over.....here is a great link, and in part what I base my cat food on: http://www.felinefuture.com/cat_nutrition/ I do add a bit of vegetable to my food, though, as my cats are totally indoors. I just use a little LGI veggies, less than 20% of the total intake.

    Of course, I add the supplements provided by my own company, as I trust their quality control completely. We just came out with a canine and a feline multi, due to demand from people trying to give their human vitamins to their animals (see, told ya! I did it, too!) and the change in one of my cats was amazing. We have been talking about having him put down, and within a couple of weeks on the new formula, he is running and playing several times a day. He even initiates play with our other cat, which he has never done, in the 12-13 years that they have been together.

    Not every person, and not every animal, responds the same way to the same diet. We all have genetic variations that determine how we utilize and absorb various componants of our food, along with lifestyle diseases, toxin exposure, accidents, surgeries, etc. So sometimes you have to start with the research, then adjust and experiment until you get it right. Fortunately with animals, there is no placebo effect....WYSIWYG....what you see is what you get!
     
  8. patandchickens

    patandchickens Flock Mistress

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    One of our cat had two occurrances of bladder stones -- unfortunately I totally do not remember which kind, which would be very relevant here, sorry -- but he has been on the c/d dry food for, oh, three plus years now without any recurrances at all, which I totally attribute to the diet switch. (He was on a different good-quality dry food before, when he had the problems occur). Actually I've put the other three cats on it too, for convenience as much as anything [​IMG]

    Good luck,

    Pat
     
  9. MrsCountryChick

    MrsCountryChick Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sooooo a "raw diet" means 'raw' food? like raw Uncooked chicken? [​IMG] I didn't know that. I'd never be able to do that (personal preference). [​IMG] But I thought "raw" meant raw ingredient, plain, or pure...... minus of preservatives or additives.

    Funny how my cat & yours were prescribed the same vet food diet. Wonder why if they were 2 totally difference mineral stones? [​IMG]
     
  10. ThornyRidge

    ThornyRidge Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Oct 28, 2008
    I did some research and actually talked at length with my vet before making my decision.. unfortunately it seems from my vet that there is no 100% guarantee on preventing any additional stones but based on her knowledge the prescription food would definately not hurt and would be better based on the analysis of his stones. My cats stones actually came from his bladder. He never had blockage in the sense that the urinary tract was blocked iwth stones.. his bladder had 3 bb sized stones made up of this calcium oxolate and as a result this caused distress to bladder resulting in the frequency of urine as well as some of his incontenance/accidents upon waking from a sleep. It seems as if somethign like this is related more to specific minerals and even protein. I went with the bag of Hills C/D and actually have both indoor cats moving to switch as there is no way to feed separate. At this point I mixed a bit up with their Iams and so far seems to not make a difference. I did read the ingrediants and noticed on bag the first 2-3 items consisted of rice and other non meat based items. I appreciate everyone's concern and information. It is nice to see different info even if I choose to not go with it. Understandably what works for one may not be the case with someone else. I really love my cat and am hoping that he continues to do as great as he has since his surgery and has no relapse. I do know since he is healed now he has much more spunk and zest- could also have something to do with no bladder irritation and millions of trips to litter box. I am gonna look into these different types of litter/boxes. I currently use regular large boxes with multi cat scoop and a nature's miracle natural enzyme mix in for odor control. I did see also where they have litters that color if there is noteable health problems. They seem quite pricey and not sure how reliable that would be. Anyway "here's hoping prescription food goes well." Thankfully also I had not opened the 20 lb bag of Iams I just purchased yet and was able to return it to Petsmart.. Did pick up a smaller bag though as I do keep that food as supplement for my very much/too tame barn cat who supplements his diet almost daily with little wildlife creatures (chipmunks, rabbits, mice, frogs, moles, squirrels, birds, etc)
     

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