Chicken Owner Needs Help Fighting City Hall

Discussion in 'Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances (and how to change' started by atlantachickenwhisperer, Jan 4, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. atlantachickenwhisperer

    atlantachickenwhisperer Chillin' With My Peeps

    200
    0
    119
    Jan 2, 2009
    Atlanta
    HELP NEEDED ASAP!

    Hello Chicken Buffs,

    I hope your all having a wonderful weekend. Your help is needed once again! I received an e-mail from a young lady in Gulf Port, Florida. The city is trying to take away her right to keep her hand raised pet chickens. It appears that the city voted unanimously to allow her to keep them, then changed their mind. I have added a lot of information below that may be confusing, but the bottom line is that we ALL need to send the Mayor and City Council Members an e-mail in support of this woman. I have found that when dealing with this type of situation we need to approach it using four main questions...

    1. Why is the city refusing to allow it's residents to "Go Green"?
    2. Why is the city refusing to allow it's residents to become self sufficient?
    3. Why is the city refusing to allow it's residents access to fresh organic chemical free food?
    4. Why is the city refusing to allow it's residents to save money during this hard economic time?

    We don't want the headlines in the paper to read..."Gulf Port Bans All Chickens" We want the headlines to read..."Gulf Port refuses residents to go green" or "Gulf Port refuses residents to become self sufficient" or "Gulf Port refuses residents access to fresh organic chemical free foods." or "Gulf Port refuses to allow resident to save some money during hard economic times"

    See how we need to approach this!

    I have looked at the Gulf Port laws, and here's what they say regarding chickens...

    Sec. 5-12.1. Keeping poultry, livestock.
    It shall be unlawful to own, keep, or maintain any poultry as defined by Florida Statutes, Section 583.01 or livestock, as defined by Florida Statutes, Section 588.13 within the City of Gulf Port.

    Florida Statutes, Section 583.01 states...
    (19) "Poultry" means all kinds of poultry and includes chickens, turkeys, ducks, guineas, geese, pigeons raised as domesticated food birds, quail, and other domesticated food birds.

    Florida Statutes, Section 588.13 states...
    (1) "Livestock" shall include all animals of the equine, bovine, or swine class, including goats, sheep, mules, horses, hogs, cattle, ostriches, and other grazing animals.

    Now, she is not raising "food birds" and chickens are not mentioned under livestock!

    Websters defines livestock as...Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses , raised for home use or for profit.

    Websters defines pet as...An animal kept for amusement or companionship.

    Again the bottom line is that we ALL need to send an e-mail to the Mayor, and City Council members in support of this woman. This is time sensitive because they are voting again on Tuesday! I have included the e-mail addresses below.

    Mike Yakes, Mayor - [email protected]

    Council Members

    Judy Ryerson - [email protected]
    Michele King - [email protected]
    Bob Worthington - [email protected]
    Mary Stull - [email protected]

    Here are the newspaper articles about this case...

    http://www.tampabay.c...

    http://www.tampabay.c...

    This could be any one of us in this position. We need to start being pro-active! I will be sending my e-mail this evening so it will be waiting on them to arrive in the morning!

    Thank you for your help!

    Andy (Chicken Whisperer)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  2. Trollkiller

    Trollkiller Chillin' With My Peeps

    298
    1
    131
    Oct 26, 2008
    Lake Como, Fl. 32157
    If you are posting the statutes correctly she is out of luck unless she gets the law changed.

    Sec. 5-12.1. Keeping poultry, livestock.
    It shall be unlawful to own, keep, or maintain any poultry as defined by Florida Statutes, Section 583.01 or livestock, as defined by Florida Statutes, Section 588.13 within the City of Gulf Port.

    Florida Statutes, Section 583.01 states...
    (19) "Poultry" means all kinds of poultry and includes
    chickens,
    turkeys,
    ducks,
    guineas,
    geese,
    pigeons raised as domesticated food birds,
    quail,
    and other domesticated food birds.

    Florida Statutes, Section 588.13 states...
    (1) "Livestock" shall include all animals of the equine, bovine, or swine class, including goats, sheep, mules, horses, hogs, cattle, ostriches, and other grazing animals.

    Under Florida law a pigeon does not count as poultry if it is not raised for food. Under Florida law a chicken does not enjoy that same exception.

    As it stands she would be in violation of the local statute if she keeps chicken even as pets.​
     
  3. Rhett&SarahsMom

    Rhett&SarahsMom Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 8, 2008
    Ah yes. Pet or livestock by definition.
    Grrrr.
    I sent an email. But she has the whole "poultry" thing to fight as well. I only have the "livestock" thing. Poultry isnt mentioned at all
     
  4. miss_jayne

    miss_jayne Lady_Jayne

    Jun 26, 2008
    Columbiaville, MI
    Quote:while your efforts are noble, the questions above are easily arguable.

    1. raising chickens can be FAR from 'Going Green'. it will seriously depend on how they are raised. all animals emit gases.

    2. raising chickens DOES not make a person self sufficient. are they going to be pets? how many will the person need to support a family without having to shop for eggs/meat/feathers for stuffing pillows/mattresses etc?

    3. unless the property is certified organic and the chicks raised are also, than this is just plain out. chemical free? not if the chickens get immunized, are treated with any meds, eat foods that have ANY chemicals etc., not chemical free.

    4. it is nearly impossible to raise chickens cheaper than buying it and produce eggs cheaper than store bought. that is an apples to oranges statement and clearly easy to debate.


    again, your effort is valiant, but the points are going to be very easy to debate.
     
  5. atlantachickenwhisperer

    atlantachickenwhisperer Chillin' With My Peeps

    200
    0
    119
    Jan 2, 2009
    Atlanta
    Hummm, very interesting miss_jayne.

    1. It's not FAR from going green in my opinon. Here's why...

    Buying eggs at the store that were hauled thousands of miles in a diesel truck emitting polution the whole way, or having your own backyard eggs? Hummm. Sounds pretty green to me! Adding chicken poop to your garden instead of factory produced fertilizers. Sounds pretty green to me! Having chickens eat your backyard pests instead of spraying chemicals. Sounds pretty green to me! Shall I continue?

    2. Raising chickens alone does not make a person completely self sufficient, but it does eliminate the need for eggs! I have not purchased eggs in years! Every little bit helps! If the sh*t ever hits the fan I will not have to wait outside for the FEMA truck for my food. Sounds pretty self sufficient to me!

    3. It's quite easy to have an organic bird. They don't have to be vaccinated, you don't have to medicate, and then let them free range. Even a USDA certification of organic is not completely 100% organic! Do your research!

    4. Wrong! Cage Free/Organic eggs in the stores are $3.50 to $6.50 a dozen. I can produce Cage Free/Organic eggs for about $1.00 a dozen or LESS in my backyard.

    Nice Try!
     
  6. Rhett&SarahsMom

    Rhett&SarahsMom Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 8, 2008
    Quote:1) If they are not truly "free range" then the benefit of reducing the bug population are going to be limited.
    One person not having to buy eggs REALLY isnt going to help reduce exhaust fumes. The economy would have to totally collapse, and more people wanting chickens for eggs AND meat, for it to make THAT big a difference. Plus, if she still eats chicken and such, then that is still being shipped from where ever.

    2)If they are her "pets" chances are that she isnt going to be processing them if the "sh"t hits the fan. Eggs will only take one so far. Unless you can barter them for meat, milk and such

    3)My birds are vaccinated against Mereks and that all. But one should treat for mites and such if they become a problem. Sure there is food grade DE. But in some cases that isnt sufficient. Also sick birds sometimes need to be treated. Therefore wiping out keeping them medication free as well. Unless one culls every sneezing bird. And then the rest of the flock "just in case"
    You take a chance with free ranging. And not many people CAN free range. If she lives in the suburbs chances are her birds are not able to free range

    4) Sorry, but there is NO WAY that you can produce a dozen eggs for less than a buck from a back yard flock. Not after you factor in the cost of building a suitable and safe coop/run, bedding and feed. And organic feed is more expensive than non organic. We have run the numbers on our small flock of 5 layers. Really not saving us money on eggs. But then again my argument to keep my pets isnt going to be based on "green" "money savings" "self sufficient" or "organic"

    I am going to be deadly honest and let them know that our birds are just that. Pet birds, that happen to be chickens.

    might be the better way for her to go. One cant really argue with emotional attachment. Unless, of course she really isnt keeping them for pets.
     
  7. miss_jayne

    miss_jayne Lady_Jayne

    Jun 26, 2008
    Columbiaville, MI
    Quote:it's okay with me to debate it out, but i wont get sucked into angry talk or swearing or breaking any BYC rules.


    when arguing a point, you don't get an opinion. you need facts to debate. so your number one is right out.


    number 2. how much money did you invest to get the eggs? as for swearing, that doesn't help an argument and if there is a 'disaster' or war, there is no guarantee that having a few chickens will be the answer to waiting for food.

    3. so the person would be ABSOLUTELY sure to ONLY raise ORGANIC chicks and/or mature fowl? that would have to be documented.

    4. just because YOU can raise them for that price doesn't mean the person wanting this change can. that's not a fact yet for the other person's situation.
     
  8. Barry

    Barry Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:The links to the news articles are not complete so I can not read the story.
    I would like to know why the Council changed their minds. What were their concerns?
     
  9. onebuggirl

    onebuggirl Chillin' With My Peeps

    233
    0
    119
    Aug 27, 2008
    Quote:You can believe what you like but I think that Miss Jayne helped point out loop holes that the oponent will try. It is always wise to come up with arguments for both sides so that you can find responses to the opposition too. I agree that chickens are going green......and that cities need to allow for people to become more self sufficient.
     
  10. Trollkiller

    Trollkiller Chillin' With My Peeps

    298
    1
    131
    Oct 26, 2008
    Lake Como, Fl. 32157
    Quote:Your attitude needs adjusting and your arguments are weak.

    1. How far is the feed you give them trucked? How far did you drive to get to the feed store? How big is the carbon footprint on the packaging of that feed? Commercial farms get the feed delivered in bulk. No packaging.

    Most eggs are laid local. There is no THOUSANDS of miles, most likely less that 200 miles.

    2. Yes in a pinch you can survive on a backyard flock assuming the location you are in allows for enough birds. If the city is only allowing you 4 birds, you will be hungry soon. If you are in the city most likely you don't have enough room to maintain a flock large enough to survive on unless you give them supplement food. I don't know if you have ever been to Florida but the ground here is mostly sand. Good eats for a chicken takes a lot of room.

    3. See #2

    4. maybe you can, does not mean those with limited space can.

    Sorry your "going green" angle is too weak to persuade a city council.

    The angle you need to go for is the fact that hens don't make any more noise or smell than animals that are allowed as pets. You need to convince them that they will not be getting calls because the birds are a nuisance.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by